It is currently Mon Aug 24, 2026 7:01 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 71 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Dispute Erupts Over Sale of North End of East Broad Top
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2026 1:37 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 02, 2013 3:33 pm
Posts: 151
PrrOpCrew wrote:
Wow, there sure are a lot of people making posts here that are making this feel like they only read what they want to read and then let propoganda fill in the blanks as something malicious.

Dare I pose this thought: A Class 1 decides to abandon a stretch of railroad in Pennsylvania, instead of it being abandonned the local munincpal authority purchases the line to railbank or keep it in place for any potential designated operator to come in and runt he line for them. Should the owner of the track be responsible for maintaining the track or should the designated operator be responsible for mainting the trakc sicne they're the ones operating on it, and include that as part of their yearly operating budget.

Direct example: York County, PA owns the rail line that Steam Into history/Northern Central Railway operates on, but they don't pay to maintain the track, its part of the operating agreement with the designated operator. How would York County justify using county tax money to maintain the tracks?

Let's say that Lane would get the northern portion of the EBT from Aughwick Creek to Mount Union, if he's only using the standard gauge rails why would he use his money to maintain the third rail which he wouldn't use? Pennies add to dollars, this is how the big railroads made money, they do little things which when expanded over a larger system can save thousands of dollars.

Why not suppose that if the EBTF wants to take trains north into Mount Union, they enter into a trackage rights agreement and part of the agreement is that the EBTF has to maintain the narrow gauge track that they operate on and repair for use any structures that they would need to do that, such as the concrete bridge over Aughwick Creek?

Is this really so hard of a concept for people on this forum to understand?

Everyone here keeps complaining about lack of activity in this hobby by "younger people", but now when a younger person comes along he's being slandered as the anti-christ by the narrow gauge cult.


Words matter, John. According to a newspaper article, Lane quoted to the courts that he has "no interest in maintaining the track for the Foundation's narrow-gauge steam trains." For some reason, that doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzies that Lane is willing to play ball with the EBTF to extend their horizons to Mt. Union. Couldn't he have phrased it much differently, if working in good faith? And, frankly if that was the case, we likely wouldn't see this going to court.The TRAINS article states that when Lane first left EBT, he felt betrayed and backstabbed. What makes you think that this isn't a ploy to keep the EBT out of Mt. Union?

Perhaps a larger issue is that you have a non-profit foundation seeking trackage rights from a for-profit LLC. Does this muddy the waters for the EBTF if applying for grants, seeing they wouldn't own the property? How do donors feel about funneling monies to rebuild trackage that isn't owned by the Foundation? This isn't as simple as entering into a lease with York County, PA.

Just because he's young, does that make him right?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dispute Erupts Over Sale of North End of East Broad Top
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2026 7:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12152
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
msrlha_archivist wrote:
Just because he's young, does that make him right?


This quote happened to pop up in my Facebook memory feed from a couple years ago:

"If you are laboring under the belief that we need to heed the unsullied peak moral vision and judgment of 18-25 year olds, ask yourself why there isn't a rental car agency on Earth that would hand them keys." -David Burge, "Iowahawk" blogger

Now, granted, Mr. Lane is reportedly aged 30 now, but..........

In other related news, I've been passed, back-channel, documentation related to the court case of a few days ago. Essentially, the allegation is being made that the "non-profit preservation" aspect of the "EBT Preservation Association" that is offering to sell to the "Juniata & Aughwick" is and has been a sham, engineered solely to enrich one individual, i.e. Larry Salone. I have hundreds of pages to go through, so I'll just leave it at that for now...............


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dispute Erupts Over Sale of North End of East Broad Top
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2026 9:20 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:54 pm
Posts: 231
PrrOpCrew wrote:
Wow, there sure are a lot of people making posts here that are making this feel like they only read what they want to read and then let propoganda fill in the blanks as something malicious.

Dare I pose this thought: A Class 1 decides to abandon a stretch of railroad in Pennsylvania, instead of it being abandonned the local munincpal authority purchases the line to railbank or keep it in place for any potential designated operator to come in and runt he line for them. Should the owner of the track be responsible for maintaining the track or should the designated operator be responsible for mainting the trakc sicne they're the ones operating on it, and include that as part of their yearly operating budget.

Direct example: York County, PA owns the rail line that Steam Into history/Northern Central Railway operates on, but they don't pay to maintain the track, its part of the operating agreement with the designated operator. How would York County justify using county tax money to maintain the tracks?

Let's say that Lane would get the northern portion of the EBT from Aughwick Creek to Mount Union, if he's only using the standard gauge rails why would he use his money to maintain the third rail which he wouldn't use? Pennies add to dollars, this is how the big railroads made money, they do little things which when expanded over a larger system can save thousands of dollars.

Why not suppose that if the EBTF wants to take trains north into Mount Union, they enter into a trackage rights agreement and part of the agreement is that the EBTF has to maintain the narrow gauge track that they operate on and repair for use any structures that they would need to do that, such as the concrete bridge over Aughwick Creek?

Is this really so hard of a concept for people on this forum to understand?

Everyone here keeps complaining about lack of activity in this hobby by "younger people", but now when a younger person comes along he's being slandered as the anti-christ by the narrow gauge cult.


John, you may have missed it in the discussion (as well as the Trains.com article), but FEBT already has a trackage rights agreement in perpetuity over the northern 4 miles of the line. When Joe Kovalchick sold this parcel, he included this clause in it for himself, which he has since transferred to FEBT. More importantly, he also included right of first refusal, which has also since transferred over to the FEBT.

As msrlha said, words matter. FEBT may have a trackage rights agreement, but without looking at its body and its exact verbiage we have no idea what that entails.

You’re correct in that the FEBT could enter an agreement with Lane to pay a nominal fee for maintenance, or even agree to maintain the narrow gauge rail and frogs itself. However, this would require Lane to come to the table in good faith—the very thing most in this thread don’t believe is happening.

Anyone in preservation will tell you that if you don’t own, you’re at risk. FEBT had the right of first refusal on that property, which was ignored by Lane and Salone. This is what the court case concerns.

I’m below 30, by the way. In case that makes my words more valuable to you.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dispute Erupts Over Sale of North End of East Broad Top
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2026 9:21 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:54 pm
Posts: 231
-delete, duplicate post-


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dispute Erupts Over Sale of North End of East Broad Top
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2026 9:15 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 1087
mcgrath618 wrote:
John, you may have missed it in the discussion (as well as the Trains.com article), but FEBT already has a trackage rights agreement in perpetuity over the northern 4 miles of the line. When Joe Kovalchick sold this parcel, he included this clause in it for himself, which he has since transferred to FEBT. More importantly, he also included right of first refusal, which has also since transferred over to the FEBT.

You're confusing the Friends of the East Broad Top (FEBT) with the East Broad Top Foundation (EBTF.)

My understanding is that the Friends/FEBT are not a party to the dispute over the sale of the EBT's north end.

_________________
--
Chris Webster


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dispute Erupts Over Sale of North End of East Broad Top
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2026 1:51 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:54 pm
Posts: 231
Chris Webster wrote:
mcgrath618 wrote:
John, you may have missed it in the discussion (as well as the Trains.com article), but FEBT already has a trackage rights agreement in perpetuity over the northern 4 miles of the line. When Joe Kovalchick sold this parcel, he included this clause in it for himself, which he has since transferred to FEBT. More importantly, he also included right of first refusal, which has also since transferred over to the FEBT.

You're confusing the Friends of the East Broad Top (FEBT) with the East Broad Top Foundation (EBTF.)

My understanding is that the Friends/FEBT are not a party to the dispute over the sale of the EBT's north end.

You are correct. Every time I used “FEBT” I meant the EBTF. Thank you for the correction!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dispute Erupts Over Sale of North End of East Broad Top
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2026 12:02 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:58 am
Posts: 327
PrrOpCrew wrote:
Direct example: York County, PA owns the rail line that Steam Into history/Northern Central Railway operates on, but they don't pay to maintain the track, its part of the operating agreement with the designated operator. How would York County justify using county tax money to maintain the tracks?


With the same reasoning that some state and local governments use to justify subsidizing Sports Stadiums for very rich Sports Team Owners.

One may not agree with the reasoning that the tax dollars generated by visitors to stadium and favorable publicity for the location are worth the $$$, but tax payer subsidies for tourist magnets have become common.

Brian Helfrich


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dispute Erupts Over Sale of North End of East Broad Top
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2026 12:29 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12152
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Latest update:

https://www.trains.com/trn/railroads/he ... -is-valid/

Quote:
Huntingdon County Judge Ray A. Ghaner ruled on Wednesday, May 13, that the proposed deal by Juniata & Aughwick Railroad to purchase 4 miles of the East Broad Top Railroad at Mount Union, Pa., for $2 million is a bona fide offer.

J&A owner Stephen Lane and the current owner of that 4-mile segment, the East Broad Top Preservation Association, sued the EBT Foundation for summary judgment to allow the transaction to proceed. The foundation, which in 2020 acquired 27 miles of the narrow-gauge East Broad Top, has spent more than $10 million restoring the line as an educational heritage railroad, running steam and diesel passenger trains.

Much of the EBT Mount Union yard is still laid with dual-gauge track. Lane wants to start a standard-gauge short line and transload facility, connecting to Norfolk Southern’s Pittsburgh Line main line. [See “Ownership dispute could split . . .,” Trains.com, May 4, 2025.]

After Ghaner ruled, the foundation immediately matched J&A’s $2 million offer.

At issue now is the validity of the foundation’s right of first refusal. Former owner Joseph Kovalchick wrote that clause into the contract in 2013 when he sold the Mount Union property to DuBois, Pa., businessman Larry Salone, who created EBTPA with the intention of someday restoring the entire railroad.

When he could not fulfill that goal, the foundation was organized to do the same, and Kovalchick later assigned that right of first refusal to the foundation. EBTPA and J&A contend that the right has lapsed. Kovalchick and the foundation say it’s still valid.


More at the link.


Last edited by Alexander D. Mitchell IV on Fri May 15, 2026 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dispute Erupts Over Sale of North End of East Broad Top
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2026 4:45 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2876
Sigh.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dispute Erupts Over Sale of North End of East Broad Top
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2026 5:05 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12152
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Now, the interesting question arises:

Since the EBT Preservation "Association" (which as near as I can tell is only one person) is officially a 501(c)3 nonprofit (or so we've been told)..............

............ if they sell the now-damaged property (no 0-6-0, pieces of property sold off for profit, damaged track switches, etc.) for a 100% mark-up from original price, where does that $2 million go if the sale is executed?

Into Larry Salone's pocket? Wouldn't that be a violation of the "non-profit" status?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dispute Erupts Over Sale of North End of East Broad Top
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2026 7:12 pm 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 1080
Location: Bucks County, PA
If the judge does rule that the EBTF still does have first right of refusal, and they exercise that right to have not have the sale go through with Mr. Lane, then there's nothing stopping Mr. Salone from pulling back and deciding not to sell the Mt Union section at all, correct?

_________________
Big Jim Video Productions
Morrisville, PA

http://www.bigjimvideo.com/home.html
http://www.youtube.com/user/bigjim4life


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dispute Erupts Over Sale of North End of East Broad Top
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2026 8:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12152
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
bigjim4life wrote:
If the judge does rule that the EBTF still does have first right of refusal, and they exercise that right to have not have the sale go through with Mr. Lane, then there's nothing stopping Mr. Salone from pulling back and deciding not to sell the Mt Union section at all, correct?

Possibly. But I have seen allegations that Salone is still in debt for the original purchase, in spite of the further sale of #3 and two plots of land for retail stores along the main drag in Mount Union. How true those allegations are, I dunno. And it still doesn't answer the Q of what he CAN do with the proceeds as a "non-profit" if he sells the north end for $2 million, no matter who the buyer is.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dispute Erupts Over Sale of North End of East Broad Top
PostPosted: Fri May 15, 2026 9:32 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2876
The only possible reason to reject the matching offer must be spite.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dispute Erupts Over Sale of North End of East Broad Top
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2026 1:55 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12152
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
PMC wrote:
The only possible reason to reject the matching offer must be spite.


I am privy to some alleged legal issues for the EBT"P"A that could/may arise from such a sale, such as contingencies or conditions about grants made to the "association" or the Mount Union Connecting RR for the restoration of "rail service" and whatnot.

I'm not being so much coy about this as I am recognizing the fact that these alleged complexities are buried deep in pages of documents and e-mails I don't have time or motivation to dredge through without someone paying me for the article, and besides which it would still be "he said, they said, someone else said....."


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Dispute Erupts Over Sale of North End of East Broad Top
PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2026 12:18 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 2055
Location: New Franklin, OH
Quote:
............ if they sell the now-damaged property (no 0-6-0, pieces of property sold off for profit, damaged track switches, etc.) for a 100% mark-up from original price, where does that $2 million go if the sale is executed?

Into Larry Salone's pocket? Wouldn't that be a violation of the "non-profit" status?

As far as money and assets go, nonprofit dissolution requires you to pay off your liabilities and transfer all remaining assets to another qualified nonprofit or government entity. BoD, members, etc. do not get any slices of the pie.
[EDIT] I don't see how this "sale" can work if EBTPR is a nonprofit and owns all the assets. You can't sell a nonprofit. You can sell an asset, but the proceeds have to go to furthering the mission. If the railroad property inclusive is the only asset, then after the tax hit to the sale, the only asset is cash. You can't keep the cash, only transfer it to a qualified nonprofit to continue the mission.

You can merge with another nonprofit, continuing the mission, but still cannot profit from it.

I must be really missing something here.

_________________
Eric Schlentner
Turner of Wrenches, Drawer of Things


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 71 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: