Reading Company No. 2102 hasn't been fired up since October 1991, and with leaving her sit out side the Hamburg shop with a half load of coal in her tender. it rooted out. The auger (Screw) is in bad shape too.
The locomotive needs a lot of TLC the stay bolts are shot, Mud ring, booster, Ect. .
I was told this by Mr. Muller him self "it would take about 7 Million dollars to fix it the right way." Then he said "maybe some day we'll have it restored."

Len.

Seven million bucks? Do you have any idea how much cash that is? I think getting 2102 into running shape would cost far, far, less. Spread seven million bucks around the steam operators community, and here I mean the proven steam operators, you'd have 614, 759, 1361, and possibly another two or three locomotives in running order. There are a lot of park locos that could be restored for that kind of money. Sheesh! Just drop that onto the Steamtown collection and you could do some serious good (at least after building a shelter in which to store the completed locomotives).

If Muller is serious about his locomotive, he should get the coal out of the tender and get her lubed, if nothing else.

Let's see............ $7 million will get you a built-from-scratch Pacific in the UK, and give you some change left over to go paint a different T1....... or two...............

The 02 is inside the steam shop at Port Clinton. No coal is in the tender nor has been for many years. Seven million.............i dont think so. Probably around 1.

I'm only telling you what Andy told me and my friend Eric Boyer last year on May 10th. at Jim Thorpe when we were talking to him and Paul nekneni ( or how ever you spell his last name. He said he like to apply for Transportation grants from the state of PA. to pay for her rebuild . He said that he like to have the floor of the steam shop cemented and have heat put in and a over head crane. He joke about playing the power ball too.

Len.

The point is....

When the decision was made to restore the 3713 years ago, the 2102 had operated in recent years and was to be overhauled. The 2100 was operational (coal fired and not painted red). The 765 was under overhaul and the 1225 was operational.

I'm sure that the $7 million dollar figure that Andy Muller threw out was to essentially make the point that a rails up restoration of the 2102 wasn't going to be cheap. As in ANY restoration there's no way of telling EXACTLY what lies ahead UNTIL the machine is completely disassembled and one can examine all the critical pieces to see what's salvageable and what needs to be made new. My best guess is that the 2102 could be given a rails up, first rate restoration (no cutting corners), for between $ 2-$4 million and take between 18 and 24 months depending on which shop the work was done in.

The key issue here is whether or not Andy Muller wants to spend that kind of money to see her run?? If he decides he does, then it'll happen, and not until then.


IMHO-Ross Rowland

In fairness, the scratchbuilt Pacific, "Tornado", cost about $20 million pounds to build, but the point is true. You could do an amazing amount of restoration for $7 million (about 5 Million pounds sterling).

It really should not be this hard to understand why neither 759 nor 2124 are undergoing restoration to service at Steamtown. They are simply to big for the current operation. Even if Steamtown went to the extra expense to restore one of the big engines it would still be eating them out of house and home when it came time to pay the coal and water bills. At the time 3713 was chosen for restoration Steamtown was under heavy pressure to stop running Canadian engines. If we are going to demand financial responsibility of Steamtown then I think we should also demand it of ourselves.

As far as long term restorations of steam locomotives go this is more the norm than the exception I would guess. TVRM has been working on Southern 630 for several years and are now hopeful it will be done before 610 runs out of 1472 days late this year or early next. Even if 630 is completed they will be a one horse railroad until 610/4501 or whatever can possibly join 630. Who know when that will be? How long did it take to get 765 back in service? Still many jumped all over Nevada Nothern when their relatively quick running gear overhaul produced a failed bearing soon after completion. The engine is now running again. Where have those people gone?

Personally I think we should be thanking our lucky stars any of the government run parks and musuems are running considering the condition of both federal and state budgets. California is proposing to close Railtown. Who knows if it will ever open again should that actually happen? Nevada has either closed or is proposing to close the museum at Ely they only recently paid a lot of taxpayer money to renovate. Spencer has given up on steam for at least a long time and possibly permanently. I am sure there are others on pins and needles waiting to discover their fates in the next budget proposal.

A recent visit to Cass found 4 shays under steam and two actually running trains on the Friday before Memorial Day. The crowds were decent. As far as I know the Railroad Museum of PA is basically operating as usual. Steamtown has been awarded some federal money for more upgrades. That is certainly better than being closed down. The fact that they have two steam locomotives under restoration is impressive considering the US economy and the condition of the federal government's budget. I feel very fortunate any of the government run operations are still running. I hope they continue to survive and really do not care what engines they are running.

John Bohon

The "official" cost posted at the project's official website, http://www.a1steam.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=82&Itemid=109 , was £3 million. Over the course of the project, the exchange rate hovered around $1.60 to £1, so it's safe to call it $5 million, $6 million if you want to adjust for inflation. There may have been some quiet and subtle subsidisation and underwriting, but nowhere NEAR the difference between $6-7 million and $20 million.

I would hesitate to speculate what $7 million would get you if you walked up to, say, the shops at Strasburg or TVRM or the like with a Reading T1 in tow........ maybe a new boiler?

Alex #4 is correct. I quoted a figure in error. $3 million pounds is about $5 million dollars. I do think that figure would get you a bit more than a mere boiler!

I WAS going to respectfully disagree with Brother Bohon's comment about either 759 or 2124 eating Steamtown "out of house and home" with respect to coal and water bills. As an example of Superpower, 759 should not cost any more, or possibly even cost less, to operate than 3254. I'm not sure just what Superpower attributes 2124 has, if any.

Then I reread his post, and the phrase "current operations" caught my eye. With the downturn in patronage in the last several years, perhaps something along the lines of a decent sized 2-8-0 (MEC 519 comes to mind) or a 4-6-0 might now be a bit more appropriate. CN 47 could probably handle four or five cars to Moscow, but that would mean restoring another Canadian engine.

I'm surprised that no one has brought up the fact that 759 may have more of a Scranton connection than any other locomotive in the collection other than DL&W 565. Under the sponorship of Ross Rowland's High Iron Company, 759 visited Scranton quite a few times in the '60s and '70s. And, yes I am a bit prejudiced towards that locomotive, thanks to having ridden behind it several times.

For the record my favorite 2 locomotives in the Steamtown collection are without doubt 759 and 2124. The first truely big steam locomotive I ever saw was 759 and it was RUNNING! I even saw her pull revenue freight on the Western Maryland. The next 2 big locomotives I saw run were both Reading T-1's. You may have to go a long way to find someone who loves these two classes of locomotives more than I.

Given the length of trains now being pulled and the steep grades around Scranton I suspect the Canadian mike running now is about the right size to match their operation. It also has a trailing truck to help with the long reverse moves. Steamtown's mission is basically to demonstrate mainline steam operation so a pacific is probably the most logical choice to meet that mission. Pacifics handled trains like this in nearly every area of the country and from the early 1900's on were probably the most seen steam locomotives pulling passenger trains in the US. I would think that should have played a part in the decision to return the B&M engine to service. The fact that it is a very good looking engine is another plus in my opinion.

With the speed Steamtown runs the smaller dirvers on the 2-8-0's would probably lead to more expense maintaining the running gear. The MEC engine would certainly be a nice one to see running. With the length of the Moscow trip and the steep grade eating water I doubt the 47 could carry enough water to make the trip comfortably. The 47 is another engine in their collection that is very interesting. Come to think of it, the collection is full of good locomotives that I would like to see running.

John Bohon

Given that seeing 759 run light through Circleville, Oh when I was a little kid is the primary reason I'm interested in steam today, I'd more seriously consider making the 6 hour drive to Steamtown to see her run again; but I'm one out of a couple of million who might do that.

More seriously, you might logically figure management at Steamtown, if really thinking ahead, might consider the bigger engines if not to better preserve them ... taking the approach of not working the locomotives anywhere near 100 percent so as to put less strain and wear on 'em. But I know government bureaucrats, and they would quickly turn this into to a complex process that when it all comes to it is controlled by the budget.

Bob