"The whole affair is so insignificant as a safety violation that had it occurred anyplace other than a railfan live stream it would be hardly worth the mention."

Uh, no. I personally know people who have done this on a Class One, that have gotten fired. They cornered a piece of equipment left in the foul.

This absolutely should be a learning experience for groups. I have seen some downright scary things happen at operating museums, but its usually dismissed as weekend warrior antics. Its amazing nobody has been killed yet.

Blown out of proportion? Maybe, most likely. But when you have a huge hyped up event, and do something stupid with lots of people watching..its a big deal. Should it just be shrugged off as nothing? Absolutely not.

Well, OK. Brother Woodring called it, but just remember, everybody is a hero in somebody else's situation. Was it a dumb mistake to make, and was it dumb to show it to all the ferro-trolls on the internet ?? We could take a poll, but it's not really necessary.

It's been 44 years since I had to sign an accident report, or even appear as a witness at an investigation. As best as I remember, there was a space where you had to describe damage to equipment, but no such space for seeing "the passenger car rock away from the camera a bit." These type incidents were handled by the guilty party's co-workers at the nearest bar. Punishment consisted of liberal razzing, and making the guest of honor pay the bar tab.

I do, however, agree that there are some frightening things happening at many railroad museums and tourist RRs, which I will not name, nor will I describe any of the serious screw-ups that I've seen. I WILL say that when I've offered my excellent, unsolicited advice to those who sorely need it, generally nobody wants to listen to it. I disagree with the statement that nobody has been killed yet, I would rephrase that to "It's a miracle that more people haven't been killed", but this little close call in Baltimore doesn't rise to that level. (See previous paragraph.)

Nova55 - No doubt you do but I doubt its the same fact set. You probably also know at least as many who have tangled a grab iron, then untangled it and nobody said anything more.

Certainly it is a learning experience which should not have happened but it is by no means the type major league screw-up which should prompt increased FRA oversight as has been suggested or proves that the Museum staff is is a bunch of bumbling morons who don't know what they're doing as has also been implied. What is important is that they recognized the possibility, were prepared for it, and dealt with it. Remember that in the course of that video two other pieces of equipment got by.

Sammy - you're right about it has happened and if you dig back far enough here you'll find one or two examples

GME

We all can agree that they may not have adequately accounted for the overhang when coming off the divergent track. What no one has mentioned is the guy that squeezed through the gap just before they kissed. That’s the issue I’d be the most concerned about here. Never, ever put yourself in any close clearance situation remotely similar to that. I’d be run off if I did that.

I'd be more inclined to suspect a slight shift in cross level than the overhang per se.

The gentleman darting through the gap was a good catch proving the worth of multiple sets of eyes. That was an unsafe act completely separate from the 'Will it clear?' question and both he and his supervisor should be on the carpet for it.

GME

Was there damage to either unit?

As far as I could tell from the video it appears limited to grab iron.
GME

There is one other aspect of this particular location to consider.

As anyone who has wandered the B&O Museum's trackage and lots with a critical eye will tell you, that Museum's sidings are mostly COMPLETELY jam-packed. When armchair critics screech "why didn't they just push the coach in further?", my answer would have been "they probably didn't have ANY room to push it in further!"

Remember that to gain access to the AFT 1, they had to move aside at least part of the regular out-and-back excursion set, at least six cars from their normal display locations, and probably another few cars that may have been fouling here and there. They have siding space out on the "First Mile" to spare last I looked (although some of those are filled with "works in progress"), but for some of the pieces involved, that would have been the furthest some have rolled in decades--including most notably the AFT 1! The Museum used to claim they moved all equipment on live rail now and then to keep the journals free and moving, but that may have been back when it was still run by the Chessie System..........

The absolutely, positively "safest" way would have involved miles of back-and-forth with lots of cars, many themselves in probably dubious shape wheel-wise, at very low speeds, making for hours more work. The "railroader" side of me completely respects the probable decision to try and "squeak her through." I've been aboard trains that "made far more work for the blacksmith" bumping a fouling car's handrails or footsteps, and watched the railroaders (including, in one case, the president of the RR at the throttle!) just shrug it off.

On the other hand, doing this in front of an invited audience (in person or on livestreaming video) is a PR blunder out of proportion to any actual damage incurred.

Hello

I would add one thing, depending on the incident it can become a revoking certification event if you leave something to foul and something happens.

some class one carriers any metal on metal is a termination with a couple years to get your job back at a law board.

I find views on safety interesting you have the spectrum of thoughts on this from not a big deal to OMG its the worse thing to happen.

Again

It's a good teaching lesson for museums staff and crews.
 

I was going to say the same thing Eric has: this is not idiots missing a clearance, it's unexpected swing of the trailing end of the locomotive from the rigid wheelbase transiting the switch trackage. With 20/20 eagle-eyed hindsignt this can be easily recognized, but in planning the move, perhaps not so much.

It isn't something to be shrugged off, though: as noted, things were very nearly written in blood. What ADM notes about close clearances is important -- but it does seem that they moved that car enough to proceed, so leaving adequate clearance to foul -- I'd say at least several feet, for just such reasons as we've just observed -- as about the safe minimum ought to have been observed, whatever that might have entailed in preparation.

I'm going to stir the pot here a little bit.

Between the two threads there were many posts concerning a relatively minor screw-up, handled properly, which caused two cars to contact. There were two, maybe three, sentences about the apparent major safety violation which, if the observations of the video were correct, came within seconds of killing one of the workers.

The optics here are that as a group we are far more concerned with the grab iron and scraped paint than we are with the lives of the people working on the project. While I have no real problem charging the cost of the grab iron off as an incidental cost in the greater restoration effort, I am certain that the budget is nowhere near enough to resurrect a human being.

Your comments?

GME

Addendum - If there is anybody who was actually present in at the museum who is in a position to credibly dispute the appearance of the action in the video please feel free to do so.

It was caused on purpose by the 2101 ( AFT 1 ) as her way of saying ...." there,that's for letting me deteriorate into this shameful condition and keeping me on public display far after my appearance warranted it".

Seeing the awful cosmetic condition she was allowed to deteriorate into I'd say it was well justified !!!

Ross Rowland, Former owner Ex.-Rdg. 2101 ( AFT 1 ).

Thanks, Ross.

2100 was the engine that came to Baltimore in 1964 to reopen the B&O Museum when C&O money came available. She made round trips between Baltimore (Camden Sta.) and Washington, then retuned to Philadelphia and the Reading Co. for more Rambles.

In addition to the AFT, 2101 pulled the first two seasons of the Chessie Steam Special, celebtating B&O's 150th anniversary, until that fire.

Reading T-1's have a "brakeman's window" on the cab, typical of B&O power. They
handled B&O's manifest trains between East Side (Phila.) and NY Harbor (CNJ Jersey City and B&O/SIRT St. George)

So Reading T-1's have more than a peripheral relationship with B&O. 2101 deserved to be restored long ago.

Phil Mulligan

And thank you Ed Striegel who saved B&O 4500 and 5300, then RDG 2100 and 2101.

GME - I’m totally with you on stirring the pot. It should be engrained in everyone to keep an eye on everybody on the ground, crew and public, when you’re operating whether you’re just switching or carrying passengers.

Prior to doing any movements, our crew members are assigned specific tasks, the plan is set and everybody else is to stay out of the way and you don’t interfere or get in the way unless you are asked and the entire crew is notified that you joined. In my opinion of that movement, there were too many people involved not paying close enough attention to the task at hand. That’s when things go awry. If it was necessary for that guy to squeeze through a close clearance, stop the movement first, call for a 3-step, then go through.

I’m going to assume the the gap shooter didn’t realize the danger he was in. I hope a discussion on close clearances is a topic in their next safety meeting.

Stepping down off my soapbox now….

Ross and Mr. Berry -

You've just proved Grandfather's point. This thread was supposed to be about a safety issue during the move. There is whole nother thread on the restoration, and while I agree with Ross that she is expressing her displeasure at how long it took for museum to start work, I don't think that she intended to mush the poor fellow to do so or that the B&O freight connection is germane to what appears to be a potentially fatal instance of horrendously poor judgment on the part of one of the crew members.

A classmate of mine applied for a job as a hearing examiner with one of the major railroads a few years back. While he took on a very different role in the law department he told me that he found out later that the preliminary interview panel had deemed him "highly qualified" for the examiner position because of his answer to one question. The question was how he would feel about recommending a suspension or dismissal when he knew that it would probably cause financial hardship to a family. His response was that he thought it sucked but that it was preferable to knocking on that same family's door to tell them that the employee was never coming home. There is a often a very fine line between the two outcomes