If you recall your F40PH operations HEP can be shut off by turning a simple switch at which point the locomotive operates like a normal GP40-2 where engine RPM is determined by throttle position. Not everything needs to run case in point there are a lot of museums with non-functional FL9s sitting around.

As someone recently 'schooled' about how HEP operated on the F40PH, there were two HEP engine speeds for synchronous 60Hz AC: one being 725rpm for tap off the traction alternator, and something like 893rpm for the dedicated HEP alternator driven like an exciter.

Neither of these would be appropriate for preserved-unit running in an enormous percentage of cost-effective operations. You'd either use a dedicated genset, as Mr. Cook wisely notes, or a separate power car.

The thing that still keeps coming up in my mind: aren't many 'deturbo' conversions of these 645s done by beefing up the mechanical drive that they use for slow-speed drive to the centrifugal blower of the turbocharger, perhaps even retaining the turbine wheel for balance but not feeding exhaust (and coolant) to it?

If you're going to use the engine as a 'cabbage' operationally, I see clear benefit in selling the 645 and parts for market value, and making up the sort of 'sled' that EMD put in the LIRR DE30s, with a genset sitting on it balanced correctly and fitted with modular connections. That preserves all the historic fabric, gives you as much HEP wattage as you could need, and could always be reversed if you for some reason wanted a fully powered locomotive.

The RR Museum of Pa. made the right choice.

The AEM7's operated through Pennsylvania. The first few of them, including their choice, had car bodies assembled in Pennsylvania at Budd's Red Lion, Pa. plant. You can morally justify saving an F40PH almost anywhere in the nation that Amtrak runs, but an AEM7 belongs either in either the area in which they ran OR one of the few "one of everything" rail museums out there--which rationalizes the Illinois Railway Museum's one, besides technical assembly by nearby EMD.

Sure, I'd have loved it of one of the regular F40PH's on the Pennsylvanian had made it to the RRMPa. And while I'm at it, let me wish for unlimited RR museum funding, world peace, scent-free marijuana and tobacco, and free hangover-less craft beer everywhere......

I am glad that I will not have to watch them bounce around at slow speed on poor track pulling an excursion. From the time that I saw the first one being assembled at the plant till the point where I retired many decades later they were the predominant passenger locomotive in the industry. I had many enjoyable cab rides on Amtrak and a half dozen commuter railroads in the course of deliveries and training. Probably the most memorable cab rides were on the MBTA at the end of an evening testing cab signals. The dispatcher would call “it’s your railroad” and you were headed back to the shop as fast as 3200 HP could legally take you. All green, no station stops, and at 2AM you are the only ones out on the railroad. What a great experience, what great memories.

PC

WMSR had one from Larry's they were leasing a few years back, but I believe they sent it back and substituted a GE Dash 8 hood unit. Not sure what the leases cost, but what they gain in fuel costs they likely will lose in replacement parts costs.

It was not an AEM7 it was a E60.

You REALLY need to get up to date,friend.

The E60 was acquired LONG before mass replacement and retirement of the F40PH's was under way at Amtrak. That was a completely separate acquisition.

And let's look at the check boxes:

• Ran in Pennsylvania.
• Historically significant as the first replacement for GG1's on the electrified PRR lines, even if ultimately deemed not completely successful.
• Built in Pennsylvania by a based-in-Pa. loco builder (VERY important to curation).
• Made available by Amtrak at pretty low cost (to a qualified museum).

This is on top of the AEM7 acquisition. Basically, the RR Museum of Pa. was offered an F40PH, but chose the AEM7 over the F40PH, for lack of room and the other reasons I explained.

Let's look at one other aspect:
It's FAR more difficult to annoy Museum personnel with persistent "Why don't you get that running?" appeals with any electric locomotive than with a diesel-electric. <;-)

ADM4 is referring to how the E60CP was built in Erie by GE. I'll add that the AEM-7's carbody was built by Budd whose headquarters was in Philadelphia. I assume (but don't really know) that the carbody was manufactured at Budd's North Philadelphia plant.

Your timeline is quite off. The E60 was bought by the museum in 2003 and delivered in early 2004. The F40PH era at Amtrak had already ended by then.

P42DC deliveries to Amtrak had finished in 2001 and the small F59PHI fleet was delivered in 1998. What remained of the F40PH fleet under Amtrak ownership by the time the E60 was acquired were either rusting away in deadlines or turned into cab cars.

F40PH's starting to be pushed aside in 1996 and were largely removed from intercity service by the end of the following year. Short haul service ended with the electrification between New Haven & Boston along with the delivery of the F59PHI's for California and the end of Amtrak's short lived express initiative.

The last regular service for Amtrak F40PH's ended in late 2001. By the start of 2002 Amtrak had already retired over 80 of them with the vast majority of the remaining survivors stored pending disposition, leaving just 10 for protection power (last runs in the summer) and the cabbages.

Is the situation you envision so low power that the turbo is still in gear and not free wheeling? Perhaps there is a clever electrical cabinet modification that would allow partial self load on the dynamic grid while still providing low propulsion power and HEP. Then the power output would be high enough to keep the turbo happy.

I doubt any preserved F40PH would be re-engined with a Roots-blown 645 at this point. It was my understanding that most of the 'conversions' of EMD engines involved better mechanical drive to the centrifugal blower, a beefed-up version of what's already on every EMD turbo setup to provide proper scavenge air at lower notch. In my opinion very little operation for a preserved F40 would be above... what? Notch 5? Isn't a normal 645 operating governed in notch 5 still largely on the mechanical drive at that engine speed and probable load?

Can't do much harm to 'plumb' the exhaust around the turbo housing while keeping much of the 'historic fabric' of the turbocharger drive and blower in place. (And it probably beats the fun of deciding on a modern high-speed-engine genset replacement on a sled!)

If you start messing with it, it's not a "preserved F40PH" anymore.

It's something else that just looks like an F40PH, and if we're going that route, it might just be easier to build one out of foam like a movie prop.

The TBD Devastator hanging from the ceiling of the USS Midway sure looked good.

I think there’s difference between a preserved museum piece buffed, stuffed & mounted, and an operational one on a tourist road. I assume RCD’s intent is to preserve one.

Since the thread drifted a bit and we’re kind of discussing low speed operation without HEP, I’d speculate that the swap to a blower wouldn’t be difficult or fussy if you had all the stock parts on hand and you have the tools & equipment to do so. It’s basically the same engine either way, I think. But why bother unless the stock turbo doesn’t deliver enough air pressure at low RPM. In which case, can you change the turbo or maybe just the clutch or gears? I don’t know enough about that particular setup on the F40PH but it would be interesting to know.

Let's look at what has, by default, become the unofficial "F40PH Preservation Society"............. The Grand Canyon Railway.

Nothing that the Grand Canyon Railway has done to either version of the F40PH they have acquired--the Amtrak and NJ Transit versions--which involves mostly re-gearing to freight gearing as "F40FH's", cannot be undone to "backdate" one to Amtrak specs, should one be desired to be officially preserved.

Several officials at Xanterra have verbally stated, albeit unofficially, that they will be happy to turn at least one F40PH over to preservation IF AND WHEN they are retired from GCRY duty--to the Arizona State RR Museum project first, or should that not transpire another worthy museum, maybe the one in Chandler, Arizona,.

But given that the GCRY Has JUST acquired YET ANOTHER ex-Amtrak F40PH from LTE to supplement the three ex-Amtrak and two NJT ones already on hand, and reports are a sales agreement is being negotiated to sell the ex-VIA MLW FPA4's to another party, the F40PH era will remain alive and well at Williams for the time being. (I REALLY don't think they want to deal with used Amtrak GE's anytime soon, but ya never know......)

To risk further drift, I have a feeling not many tourist operators want to deal with old P40s/42s. In talking to someone close to a major operation, a former Class I second gen. EMD slug set seems to be highly desirable power, at least to the mechanical and operating staffs.