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 Post subject: Re: EBT announcement
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 10:09 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:21 pm
Posts: 489
Location: Columbus, OH
G. W. Laepple wrote:
First of all, the current operating line between Rockhill Furnace and Colgate Grove is in dire need of ties, ballast, surfacing and joint tightening. The long fill at Ronks Road must be stabilized. This work alone will run into the hundreds of thousands, especially if done by an outside contractor.


Track work on the currently operating portion of the line has been ongoing since 2006. Over 1700 ties, many kegs of track bolts and many tie plates have been installed. All tied areas have been leveled, lined and tamped. All joint bars in those areas have been snugged, or the bolts replaced. The abutments on the Runk Road bridge were repaired and are now in good shape. Work on the Runk Road fill is already being planned. The work is scheduled to continue in 2009 and I fully expect the new operators will pick up the work. The work is not costing "hundreds of thousands" of dollars, but it is costing money and is quality work. The line is in significantly better shape than it was in 2005. If you ride the train this year you can tell. It needs more work and that work is continuing.


G. W. Laepple wrote:
Reopening the line to Mount Union will require cubic dollars. First of all, removal of 50-plus years of growth in and on and around the track structure. Then, 100 percent replacement of ties, followed by ballast and surfacing. Reconstruction of at least half a dozen public road crossings. Rehabilitation of every drainage way. Most daunting, the replacement of hundreds of thousands of cubic yards of fill material , plus rail and ties, on the half-mile long fill south of the concrete arch bridge near Shirleysburg. (This boney fill burned about 25 years ago, and the ash remains were carried away by floodwaters.) Once in Mount Union, construction of a turning facility, since the wye no longer exists.


In restoring the line to Mount Union, there are only four public grade crossings (three local and one state) plus several private ones that need addressed. The work on the grade is greater than you say, as the top layer simply needs removed and replaced with stone ballast. However, that gives you a large supply of fill for the washouts (there are three areas, the long one and two short, deep ones). The wye in Mount Union was located in the empty lot between McDonalds and the Grocery/Pharmacy/Hardware. The south leg just clipped the corner of where the parking lot is now. In my opinion there is room to realign the curve and retain the original switch locations (which are still in place). The rail for the wye is still there as well, ready to be relaid. Of significant concern also are the two bridges, at Aughwick and Shirleysburg, both of which need substantial masonry work. The large culvert (birdge) in Mount Union is on good shape. All of these issues are surmountable.

G. W. Laepple wrote:
The question is whether reopening the line beyond Colgate Grove will generate additional revenue to offset the cost of rehabilitation, not to mention additional wear and tear on locomotives and rolling stock. Get the currently operating portion of the line up to snuff, restore a second steam locomotive, beef up the operating schedule and passenger amenities and increase the bottom line -- only then contemplate restoration of additional track.


Considering the EBT is within a days drive of several million people, I have NO DOUBT that if properly marketed (which is a skill the new operator brings) that the ridership can be substantially increased with or without extension. The variety in operations offered by a two station arrangement also will encourage repeat riders, an arrangement which is not possible today. I do not think the new operators are advocating running up there tomorrow to start cutting brush, but more of a three-year plan to acquire funding and plan prior to beginning work.

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Christopher D. Coleman

https://www.oldeastie.com Old Eastie: East Broad Top Homepage
https://www.febt.org Friends of the East Broad Top
https://www.eastbroadtop.com East Broad Top Railroad


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 Post subject: Re: EBT announcement
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 3:13 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 10, 2004 11:32 am
Posts: 24
Location: PA
heads up!
http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/conte ... ml?nav=742


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 Post subject: Re: EBT announcement
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 7:57 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2611
Location: S.F. Bay Area
pvanmeter wrote:
http://www.altoonamirror.com/page/content.detail/id/507460.html?nav=742


Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. Works that way for business ventures too :) I congratulate him on his courage and wish him luck in future ventures.


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 Post subject: Re: EBT announcement
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 9:23 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:46 am
Posts: 203
Location: here, there, wherever
They are going to take credit cards. Welcome to the 21st century, boys. Not taking the plastic probably cost the EBT a few hundreds, if not thousands, of potential ticket and souvenir sales each year. (who carries that much of the greenage anymore?)


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 Post subject: Re: EBT announcement
PostPosted: Mon May 11, 2009 10:54 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12151
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Quote:
They are going to take credit cards. Welcome to the 21st century, boys.


No, welcome to the 20th century. What, did they finally get dialing telephones in Orbisonia? Can anyone get a cell phone signal at all there yet? Coming soon to that corner of Huntington County: The Internet!


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 Post subject: Re: EBT announcement
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:35 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:27 pm
Posts: 68
Cell phones have worked at the EBT since at least 2003 when I started going there.


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 Post subject: Re: EBT announcement
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:20 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:21 pm
Posts: 489
Location: Columbus, OH
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Quote:
They are going to take credit cards. Welcome to the 21st century, boys.


No, welcome to the 20th century. What, did they finally get dialing telephones in Orbisonia? Can anyone get a cell phone signal at all there yet? Coming soon to that corner of Huntington County: The Internet!


Verizon has a tower but does not appear to allow roaming from it. AT&T, Sprint, Nextel, etc, out of luck.

The station has DSL by the way.

_________________
Christopher D. Coleman

https://www.oldeastie.com Old Eastie: East Broad Top Homepage
https://www.febt.org Friends of the East Broad Top
https://www.eastbroadtop.com East Broad Top Railroad


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 Post subject: Re: EBT announcement
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 12:51 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12151
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
ebtrr wrote:
The station has DSL by the way.


No doubt run on a computer with vacuum tubes. >;-)


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 Post subject: Re: EBT announcement
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 1:45 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6464
Location: southeastern USA
It is a steam powered Babbage Analytical Engine with the superheat retrofit package added from the J.C. Whitney catalog.

dave

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“God, the beautiful racket of it all: the sighing and hissing, the rattle and clack of the cars over the rails. These were the sounds that made America the greatest country on earth." Jonathan Evison


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 Post subject: Re: EBT announcement
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 6:56 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 3011
G. W. Laepple wrote:
For the record, I am no longer a qualified track inspector, having left railroad employment some eight years ago..


How does leaving railroad employment invalidate your qualifications as a track inspector? If I recall correctly, the requirements are for a certain level of training and/or experience, along with some supervisory experience. Once you have met those qualifications, wouldn't you continue to meet them from that point on?

In any case, you don't have to have a degree in railroad engineering to know that the EBT needs ballast, ties and surfacing. The same statement can probably be said of most tourist railroads. In fact, I can only recall one or two where I've truly been impressed with the track structure. The Strasburg springs to mind as one of the ones with top notch track.


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 Post subject: Re: EBT announcement
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 7:20 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 3011
pvanmeter wrote:


"Quaker Steak and Lube"? What the...

"Sir, we suggest that you use 20 weight oil with the Sirloin, it imparts a deep golden flavor to the steak, and protects against corrosion!"


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 Post subject: Re: EBT announcement
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 9:04 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 1:21 pm
Posts: 489
Location: Columbus, OH
Bobharbison wrote:
pvanmeter wrote:


"Quaker Steak and Lube"? What the...

"Sir, we suggest that you use 20 weight oil with the Sirloin, it imparts a deep golden flavor to the steak, and protects against corrosion!"


We have some of those here in Columbus. The have about 20 levels of spice for their wing sauce. The top one is called "Thermonuclear". Probably good for removing scale from boilers.

_________________
Christopher D. Coleman

https://www.oldeastie.com Old Eastie: East Broad Top Homepage
https://www.febt.org Friends of the East Broad Top
https://www.eastbroadtop.com East Broad Top Railroad


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 Post subject: Re: EBT announcement
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 10:18 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12151
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Bobharbison wrote:
How does leaving railroad employment invalidate your qualifications as a track inspector? If I recall correctly, the requirements are for a certain level of training and/or experience, along with some supervisory experience. Once you have met those qualifications, wouldn't you continue to meet them from that point on?

In any case, you don't have to have a degree in railroad engineering to know that the EBT needs ballast, ties and surfacing. The same statement can probably be said of most tourist railroads. In fact, I can only recall one or two where I've truly been impressed with the track structure. The Strasburg springs to mind as one of the ones with top notch track.


For the record, the retort "are you a qualified track inspector?" was hurled at me on occasions in the past when I openly questioned the condition of several aspects of EBT infrastructure in use. It was hurled by people who, shall we say, were more concerned about their ability to ride a photo charter or take photographs of the EBT than they apparently were for the long-term viability of either the EBT or the industry.

Though I am not "certified" in any technical sense, I have had track construction/maintenance experience at three rail lines, and have studied some aspects of civil engineering, especially bridge construction related to vintage bridges, and served as a consultant to the Feds on a Federal bridge manual (covered bridges). None of that is necessary to tell that if a line on a curve on a fill has EIGHT ties in a row with no spikes on one side actually having enough wood or rot left to "bite," that trains shouldn't be running over it at anything more than a creep, let alone repeatedly.


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 Post subject: Re: EBT announcement
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 12:26 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:54 am
Posts: 1078
Location: Califoothills / Midwest Prairies / PNW
Quote:
Though I am not "certified" in any technical sense, I have had track construction/maintenance experience at three rail lines, and have studied some aspects of civil engineering, especially bridge construction related to vintage bridges, and served as a consultant to the Feds on a Federal bridge manual (covered bridges). None of that is necessary to tell that if a line on a curve on a fill has EIGHT ties in a row with no spikes on one side actually having enough wood or rot left to "bite," that trains shouldn't be running over it at anything more than a creep, let alone repeatedly.


So, if I understand correctly, you are saying both that you have no qualifications to condemn the railroad, but you condemn it none the less.

To take your comment in the best possible light, I would suggest that whoever the operator is this year, they should conduct a thorough investigation of the line and execute a combination of slow orders and a maintenance program, before operations as usual. It makes sense to me, regardless of what has been said, but especially now.


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 Post subject: Re: EBT announcement
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:43 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 12151
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
o anderson wrote:
So, if I understand correctly, you are saying both that you have no qualifications to condemn the railroad, but you condemn it none the less.


Because 1) the School of Hard Knocks doesn't issue a degree or certificate, and 2) I don't need a high-school diploma to read the handwriting on the wall.

If you get in a taxicab or bus and find in the first fifty feet of travel that the vehicle has shot brakes, an anemic engine, a suspension that's shot, leaking exhaust lines, and wheels within one last broken lug of falling off, do you say "well, it has to be all right, they must know what they're doing better than I do because I don't have a mechanic's certification, and besides, the state had to license it..."?

No. You get out of the freakin' bus/taxi and look for another one by a different company.

Quote:
To take your comment in the best possible light, I would suggest that whoever the operator is this year, they should conduct a thorough investigation of the line and execute a combination of slow orders and a maintenance program, before operations as usual. It makes sense to me, regardless of what has been said, but especially now.


The announcement was made last week. They say they're scheduled to open June 6th. I've neither seen nor heard about nor been shown any evidence of a massive reconstruction program that replaced the equivalent of every other tie on the line or corrected other potential failure points (the fill, Runk Road overpass, etc.), though I've heard of some tie replacement and seen lots of gauge bars thrown in over the years.

What the debate ultimately comes down to is whether what repairs and maintenance that have been effected so far are adequate for the circumstances or simply courting potential disaster.


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