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 Post subject: Which former locos should get another go? 2022 edition
PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2022 6:09 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:15 pm
Posts: 561
This has probably been posted before here but I suppose this constantly needs updating, given that circumstances can always change (ie 611, 2716, the Reading T1’s and most recently, 3985),

Just a simple question. What locomotives that have operated in preservation at one point (and have no current plans for operational restoration) deserve another chance to run again? Can be anything from dinky museum 0-4-0’s to more modern mainline giants. I’m interested in seeing what the railfanning users think here and why.


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 Post subject: Re: Which former locos should get another go? 2022 edition
PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2022 12:20 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:32 am
Posts: 189
I can think of many, but just to start:

Both Morris County Central engines-4039-The Whippany Museum members have been waiting a long time for the boiler to be finished. 385-A beautiful engine and a local favorite

N & W 1218
Frisco 1522
Any of the Burlington O5s
CP 972
LIRR 39, 35
B & M 3713-just because it's been in restoration limbo for far too long
N de M 3028-Same reason as 3713

Sorry, just noticed that the original question referred to engines that had operated previously in preservation. Some of mine never operated in preservation but have been the subject of long or abandoned restoration efforts.

Thanks,
John


Last edited by rem1028 on Thu May 12, 2022 4:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Which former locos should get another go? 2022 edition
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 1:45 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2021 4:36 pm
Posts: 142
Atlanta & West Point #290. Talk about an engine that got a raw deal. Most of it's excursion career was plagued with running gear issues, they finally got the running gear problems solved, and then not long afterwards New Georgia Railroad closed up shop and N&W and CSX stopped playing ball with mainline excursions.


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 Post subject: Re: Which former locos should get another go? 2022 edition
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 4:28 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:32 am
Posts: 189
Agreed re:290. Do you know if the running gear issues had anything to do with a diesel almost always being in the consist when the engine ran, as a form of protection in case something went wrong?

Thanks
John


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 Post subject: Re: Which former locos should get another go? 2022 edition
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 9:31 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 04, 2004 10:28 pm
Posts: 290
rem1028 wrote:
Agreed re:290. Do you know if the running gear issues had anything to do with a diesel almost always being in the consist when the engine ran, as a form of protection in case something went wrong?

Thanks
John


The diesel had to do with the fact that New Georgia was running longer trains than they wanted to run with 290 solo--running a Pacific on a 20 car excursion train, while it could be done, is really pushing the capabilities of even an engine of 290's size. I wouldn't be surprised if stretching the coal and water supply had something to do with it as well. Also, some of the spots they went to, they would end up in push-pull moves, so having a diesel was a benefit.


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 Post subject: Re: Which former locos should get another go? 2022 edition
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2022 10:31 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:32 am
Posts: 189
That makes sense, thank you! I didn't realize they were running such long trains.

John


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 Post subject: Re: Which former locos should get another go? 2022 edition
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2022 11:04 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 6315
How about Savannah & Atlanta 4-6-2 # 750? l always thought she was the best looking of all the surviving ex-Florida East Coast Pacifics. And any one of the CB&Q Hudsons. Some of the survivors were run in fan trip service toward the end of the steam era on the Burlington.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Which former locos should get another go? 2022 edition
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2022 8:52 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1796
While agreeing with John, I would nominate two significant locomotives that weren't operated in preservation, but really should have been.

One is, of course, NYC 3001 (which can really double esthetically as a Hudson)

The other is C&O 490, the potential restoration of which has been dramatically furthered technically by the work done for T1 5550.

Either of these is capable of being adjusted to low augment and fully able to operate commercially-practical consists.

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 Post subject: Re: Which former locos should get another go? 2022 edition
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2022 12:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 2251
The Wm Mason.


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 Post subject: Re: Which former locos should get another go? 2022 edition
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 6:49 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:47 pm
Posts: 177
The original John Bull, which was carefully inspected, tested, and steamed for its 150th anniversary. I give it an infinitesimal small chance of happening for its 200th, Smithsonian curating has become so cautiously conservative in its effort to properly preserve and conserve artifacts (and rightly so) that such a "risky" endeavor would be considered foolhardy.

But, one can still dream of an exception.

-Sam


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 Post subject: Re: Which former locos should get another go? 2022 edition
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 10:04 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1796
The thing about the 'original' John Bull is that actually operating it is much more complicated, and potentially damaging to the historic fabric, than something like allowing a ceremonial 'ding' from the Liberty Bell.

In my opinion, the 'best' soultion is either to replicate the John Bull for the bicentenary operating celebration, or make new parts for all the potentially''damageable' components. Since a significant part of the 'historic fabric' is the fasteners and other methods holding the components straight and steam-tight, the "damage" involved in the latter method may not be worth seeing it operate.

This leaves out the idea of using 'tender drive' in a purpose-built vehicle and using theatrical smoke and steam to imitate full operation. I would not mention this with a straight face on the Interchange, because it really isn't 'serious preservation' even before you consider whether it 'damages the artifact' just to roll it...

The Smithsonian would have access to people skilled in the art of producing measured drawings from technical artifacts, and to get working access to the equipment to make and process pointcloud scanning...

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 Post subject: Re: Which former locos should get another go? 2022 edition
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 10:14 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:47 pm
Posts: 177
There is always the John Bull replica at RRMPA, which was built in the 30s and ran as recently as the late 1990s.

However I agree, having the original operate as it did for the 150th is little more than a pipe dream of mine, and isn't in the best interest of the artifact's continued conservation. But... what's realistic and factual isn't the point of this thread, it's just fun to discuss.


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 Post subject: Re: Which former locos should get another go? 2022 edition
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 10:36 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1796
If the criterion is 'fun to see' then the chief contender for never-gonna-happen but highly delightful would be operation of the streamlined DR 05 locomotive. I have seen at least two carefully-detailed engineering analyses of this locomotive, and have read several other less rigorous ones, and there is a locomotive of the right combination of technical achievement and 'wicked cool'...

The real secret 'science project' that I'd like to see done is not the NYC 999 'as built' (including the atypical firebox construction that would have to be largely re-created) but its contemporary the Atlantic City Railroad 1027, arguably the fastest locomotive in the world in the early 1890s because there were commercial and competitive reasons to have it be and permit it to run 'as fast as it will go'.

Just as the T1 Trust has replicated or re-created many areas of Golden Age steam lore, it should be possible to find or re-engineer some of the sometimes secret 'tricks' of that earlier era, including multiport gridiron valves with active balancing, accurate and light-adjusting riding cutoff, snubbed suspension and guiding arrangements, etc.

There is one place I'd cheat: an issue with Vauclain (type 1) compounding is that the piston thrust has to be carefully and proportionally 'balanced' at all points in the piston stroke, including in compression, to keep from causing wear and 'tribological issues' in the central crosshead and guide. Without superheat but with 'compound' saturation pressue, Chapelon-style proportional steam injection for 'balance' becomes possible, at the expense of higher mass flow at high cyclic (per Tuplin). Were we to use superheat (note that LP reheat is probably less than practical on a high speed Vauclain compound due to the passage arrangements, even with a Pielock-tyle 'receiver' setup in the smokebox gas) very good reduction in mass flow might follow. Balance can easily be made to 10% above anticipated speed with no undamped resonances. And 1027 would be one of the more head-turning replicas, even if small for an 'excursion' service -- but consider Leviathat...

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 Post subject: Re: Which former locos should get another go? 2022 edition
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2022 4:37 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:15 pm
Posts: 561
I suppose I was moreso asking about ones that had gotten a shot once before in preservation but aren’t currently going now. The list isn’t giant but I’d probably nominate 1522 for mine. Solid sized, a more unique wheel arrangement, plus it’s just downright handsome.

It’s been under cover since it’s second retirement and I’m not well versed in how good it’s condition, so I am curious as to how well it has been kept.


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 Post subject: Re: Which former locos should get another go? 2022 edition
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2022 11:26 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:47 pm
Posts: 52
Location: Alliance, Ohio
I vote for Rahway Valley #15 simply because it's a fine looking engine and did run at the original Steamtown in VT.


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