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 Post subject: Re: Reading Camelback LOADED on trucks
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:35 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 9759
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
The fact that 1187/4 was one of the ONLY Reading steamers to survive to 1962, and the ONLY one in any way appropriate for a non-mainline operation, no doubt played THE major role in the loco being acquired and staying around as long as it did. Whether we want to acknowledge it or not, at least some of the founders of the Strasburg (not all, but enough) were rabid railfans of the first order. The Lancaster area had PRR, Reading, and some traction lines.

I'm sure that, long-term, the folks that were responsible for 4 showing up wished that had been able to get ANY other "mid-sized" Reading steamer such as a G3 Pacific or 2-8-0. And any of the larger Reading power--a 4-8-4, 2-10-2, or "Malley"--would have eaten them alive in coal and track repair costs.

One aspect of the Reading is that its later surviving steam power was somewhat brutishly heavy and massive. Even if one had been available (and it wasn't), consider: a 78-ton CN 0-6-0 "beat the snot" out of the Strasburg's track just before the 4 showed up.

Supposing you were a die-hard PRR fan and insisted you wanted a PRR steamer for your "collection." The ones at the RR Museum of Pa. are "off limits," at least in official policy. That leaves you with the 0-10-0 Reuben Wells and B4a 0-6-0 643 to try to buy. That's it. That's all. End of discussion. Good luck.
That's the kind of situation the "railfan" part of the Strasburg was up against in the early 1960s.


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 Post subject: Re: Reading Camelback LOADED on trucks
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:52 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 520
Dave Lewandoski wrote:
Lighten up Francis.

Uncle Hulka?


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 Post subject: Re: Reading Camelback LOADED on trucks
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:23 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5871
Location: southeastern USA
Sandy, you're forgetting about the one in the quarry.

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Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


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 Post subject: Re: Reading Camelback LOADED on trucks
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:42 am 

Joined: Sat May 19, 2018 10:03 am
Posts: 128
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
The fact that 1187/4 was one of the ONLY Reading steamers to survive to 1962, and the ONLY one in any way appropriate for a non-mainline operation, no doubt played THE major role in the loco being acquired and staying around as long as it did.


Actually, you’re forgetting the lesser known Reading 0-6-0 that used to be right across the street from the 1187. Technically speaking, 1251 would be excellent for serving a roundhouse alongside 1187 (Good luck getting her out of RRMPA however).


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 Post subject: Re: Reading Camelback LOADED on trucks
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:59 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:58 pm
Posts: 994
JJJ got 763 out of Virgiana.....and museums are hurting like everyone else....money talks if someone wants it bad enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Reading Camelback LOADED on trucks
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:11 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1370
Location: Back in NE Ohio
Dave Lewandoski wrote:
JJJ got 763 out of Virgiana.....and museums are hurting like everyone else....money talks if someone wants it bad enough.


763 was in Roanoke because N&W took over the NKP and got the steam they still owned at that time. The loco had no direct relationship to Roanoke or the N&W, so letting it go to rationalize the collection made sense and raised needed funds.


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 Post subject: Re: Reading Camelback LOADED on trucks
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 12:30 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:15 pm
Posts: 292
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Supposing you were a die-hard PRR fan and insisted you wanted a PRR steamer for your "collection." The ones at the RR Museum of Pa. are "off limits," at least in official policy. That leaves you with the 0-10-0 Reuben Wells and B4a 0-6-0 643 to try to buy. That's it. That's all. End of discussion. Good luck.
That's the kind of situation the "railfan" part of the Strasburg was up against in the early 1960s.


Well, there are of course other examples. Don’t forget the 0-6-0 in Delaware, the I1 4483, and of course the locomotive that shall not be named in Altoona. It even expands a little if you include narrow gauge operations, but that’s getting a bit off track.

That being said, I see your point with the Reading power. I do remember a very old and long thread about “near misses” on here that mentioned a G3 apparently was planned for preservation in the city of Reading, but plans fell through.

I believe the Reading only ever donated 1 modern locomotive to any organization, and that was T1 2124. All others were either purchased directly from the Reading (think 1251, 1187, and 2102) or from third parties (2100 and 2101). So consider it very lucky we were able to get this many locomotives from the Reading in preservation, and just think of all of the other anthracite roads that don’t have near the preservation numbers: CNJ, LV, DL&W, L&NE, L&HR, Erie, O&W and I’ll even throw the D&H into that mix. Out of those 8 roads, we have a combined 5 fairly modern preserved locomotives total in that bunch: two camelbacks with 4 driving wheels, two 0-6-0’s, and a 2-6-0. That’s it.


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 Post subject: Re: Reading Camelback LOADED on trucks
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 1:22 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 646
Location: B'more Maryland
Ok, that all totally makes sense then.

It was all about not passing up a great opportunity to do something cool.

And, as we can see, it all worked out well in the end. The 1187 is going to have a good home and the Strasburg got a little work out of her in the process.

I'd also definitely say that being in a situation where your new engine isn't powerful enough because of your number of riders is a good problem to have.


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 Post subject: Re: Reading Camelback LOADED on trucks
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 5:00 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:58 pm
Posts: 994
PaulWWoodring wrote:

and raised needed funds.


THIS. I've seen RR,plane,other museums let items go they normaly wouldn't...but ya gotta pay the bills.


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 Post subject: Re: 643 to AOS
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:36 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 26, 2004 10:51 pm
Posts: 132
Location: Eastern Pennsylvania
misterwandle wrote:
I suggest that you ask the cities of Pittsburgh and McKees Rocks, as their COVID virus regulations have prevented AoSRM from loading and moving #643. Whenever they give the OK, then #643 will be shipped by rail to Sugarcreek.
John B. Corns


Thanks for the update, John. I'm glad to hear that the 1187 will be in good hands.

Very interesting to hear that the 643 will be shipped by rail now. I've been following the updates, and I remember reading that it was originally going to be transported via truck, so this is an exciting change.

Sorry to hear that Allegheny County and some of the surrounding cities are being extremely restrictive with regards to activities. As a PA resident, I follow the daily status updates, and the important numbers have been good for a while.

I bet it is so frustrating for you guys to be stopped in the middle of the project!

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 Post subject: Re: 643 to AOS
PostPosted: Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:07 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:12 pm
Posts: 155
jrevans wrote:
misterwandle wrote:

Sorry to hear that Allegheny County and some of the surrounding cities are being extremely restrictive with regards to activities. As a PA resident, I follow the daily status updates, and the important numbers have been good for a while.

I bet it is so frustrating for you guys to be stopped in the middle of the project!


As a Pittsburgh resident, I can say there is absolutely a reason for the restrictions being as tough as they are. As soon as the county initially loosened restrictions our cases spiked. Partly due to the fact that there are too many people out there not covering their faces and getting in everybody else's personal spaces.


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 Post subject: Re: Reading Camelback LOADED on trucks
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 8:55 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1897
Location: Strasburg, PA
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
Ok, that all totally makes sense then.

It was all about not passing up a great opportunity to do something cool.

And, as we can see, it all worked out well in the end. The 1187 is going to have a good home and the Strasburg got a little work out of her in the process.

I'd also definitely say that being in a situation where your new engine isn't powerful enough because of your number of riders is a good problem to have.
In 1962, there was very little in the way of strategic planning going on at SRC. They had only gotten #31 running two years before, and probably heard that #4 was available and operable, and snapped it up, since they weren't in a position to take on anything that wasn't already running. Once on the line, it's steaming deficiencies became sadly evident, and SRC was in no position knowledge wise to do anything about it, so it quickly became very 2nd fiddle, then 3rd fiddle when #1223 came into service in 1965.

Of course if they hadn't followed their foamer tendencies in 1962, CF&I would have no doubt run her through a blast furnace without a second thought, so all's well that ends well.

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 Post subject: Re: Reading Camelback LOADED on trucks
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 12:29 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 646
Location: B'more Maryland
Kelly Anderson wrote:
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
Ok, that all totally makes sense then.

It was all about not passing up a great opportunity to do something cool.

And, as we can see, it all worked out well in the end. The 1187 is going to have a good home and the Strasburg got a little work out of her in the process.

I'd also definitely say that being in a situation where your new engine isn't powerful enough because of your number of riders is a good problem to have.
In 1962, there was very little in the way of strategic planning going on at SRC. They had only gotten #31 running two years before, and probably heard that #4 was available and operable, and snapped it up, since they weren't in a position to take on anything that wasn't already running. Once on the line, it's steaming deficiencies became sadly evident, and SRC was in no position knowledge wise to do anything about it, so it quickly became very 2nd fiddle, then 3rd fiddle when #1223 came into service in 1965.

Of course if they hadn't followed their foamer tendencies in 1962, CF&I would have no doubt run her through a blast furnace without a second thought, so all's well that ends well.


Makes total sense to me! And I agree, you guys did a good thing giving her somewhere safe to hang out until she found her forever home.


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 Post subject: Re: Reading Camelback LOADED on trucks
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 6:36 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:08 am
Posts: 57
'I suggest that you ask the cities of Pittsburgh and McKees Rocks, as their COVID virus regulations have prevented AoSRM from loading and moving #643. Whenever they give the OK, then #643 will be shipped by rail to Sugarcreek.
John B. Corns'

"Thanks for the update, John . . . Very interesting to hear that the 643 will be shipped by rail now. I've been following the updates, and I remember reading that it was originally going to be transported via truck, so this is an exciting change.

Don't get too excited about the possibility of seeing a 2-10-4 rolling down the main line for its shipping by rail to Sugarcreek. It was impossible to get #643 out of McKees Rocks in one piece either by rail or by highway truck. AoSRM said some time ago that #643's boiler had been separated from its frame, and that the disparate pieces would be going to Sugarcreek on two big flatcars. AoSRM will keep everyone apprised of their progress in this regard. Be safe
John B. Corns


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 Post subject: Re: Reading Camelback LOADED on trucks
PostPosted: Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:38 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 564
Location: Philadelphia, PA
An interesting industrial locomotive coincidence in Birdsboro and East Strasburg.

in the late 1930's, there was a quarry in Birdsboro ("BE"; the other side of the river from the E and G Brooke plant) that had a 19th century 2-8-0 with a Belpaire firebox. PRR was looking for an ancient engine to display at the 1939-1940 NY Worlds Fair. They came out and looked at the Birdsboro engine and discovered it was a PRR H3. Number 1187. That's right, PRR 1187 worked at an industrial site in Birdsboro.

PRR acquired the engine, added it to the Historic Collection, and now it's restored scross the street from SRC at RR Museum of PA, on display in Rolling Stock Hall.

https://rrmuseumpa.org/wp-content/uploads/PRR-1187.jpg

Phil Mulligan


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