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 Post subject: Re: Little mystery in Maumee, Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:28 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2122
Location: Northern Illinois
Les,

C&NW had a series of 4o ton double sheathed USRA cars acquired during the period of gov't control during WWI. These are the specific cars the Youngstown Steel Door Co. car sides were designed for. The USRA 40 ton boxcars were some of the last wood frame cars built (substancial steel underframe, but all wood body) and with 25,000 identical cars built there was a ready market for improvements. The YSDCo. sides came completely fabricated with car posts with brackets attached to adapt them to the narrower USRA frames; the car was stripped of all wood, leaving only the frame and two ends and the side were spliced in between the ends. The roofs were then made of steel panels reclaimed fom the original cars.

The problem is, these re-builds were of riveted construction and used industry standard ends and roofs. They also retained their original fishbelly underframes. There seems to be zero connection between the cars in question and the C&NW rebuilding program, other than maybe the trucks. I might point out that as groups of cars were retired, sometimes the trucks were re-used, or sold on the secondary market.

The thing that is most noticeable about the mystery cars is the non standard roof construction. Most railroad shops were very familiar with the Standard Railway Equipment Co. panel roofs that became popular to the exclusion of all others. When Pullman-Standard developed their own roof panel after WWII, they copied the form and dimensions of the SRECo. product. Seeing something formed out of flat sheet is just, well, different.

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Dennis Storzek


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 Post subject: Re: Little mystery in Maumee, Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 10:53 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2095
Image

I had to find a boxcar with similar design, note the ends.

This could be a wood boxcar with steel frame conversion. Conversions like this to give wood boxcars a longer life did happen. Tracing the origination is tough without some closeup looks and/or scraping paint off, but it will take more scrounging, for me checking the local Toledo area lines would be first, painting it Nickel Plate would be a clue for heritage checks, but it would not have to be a NKP car. Note the scanner plate....!


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 Post subject: Re: Little mystery in Maumee, Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 12:36 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2122
Location: Northern Illinois
Yeah, as I said, during the period that CN car was built, wood ends with steel posts were common. Some of the CN cars were originally built for the Grand Trunk Railway (of Canada) a CN predecessor, and were originally built with only two end posts. Later built cars had four. I believe the fifth, centered post was added later and was a length of scrap rail, at least it was on some cars. Car ends take the worst beating of any part of a boxcar (from loads shifting into them during switching or humping) which was one of the reasons they were the first part that was changed to steel .

I'm afraid the NKP paint (its a pretty fanciful scheme) is simply because of local heritage, unrelated to the heritage of the car. Someone was nice enough to send me photos of the same car taken twenty or so years ago, and it was freight car red and lettered WABASH at that time.

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Dennis Storzek


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 Post subject: Re: Little mystery in Maumee, Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 1:59 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:10 pm
Posts: 37
The Maumee caboose sure looks like a B&O caboose.


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 Post subject: Re: Little mystery in Maumee, Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 2:25 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5021
Dennis Storzek wrote:
I'm afraid the NKP paint (its a pretty fanciful scheme) is simply because of local heritage, unrelated to the heritage of the car. Someone was nice enough to send me photos of the same car taken twenty or so years ago, and it was freight car red and lettered WABASH at that time.


Bob Albert, who took the first two photos in this thread, is a member (and past officer) of the Nickel Plate Road Historical Society, and he advised that the car is not of NKP heritage. Would like to see the photos of the car in WABASH paint Dennis, if you can somehow post them, but that may just be another case of the Maumee car being painted for a local railroad. The key still may be what is cast into the trucks of the car there at Maumee. Also, I wonder if anyone has checked the inside of any of these three cars, to see if there might be some lettering therein. One other possibility is a number and railroad reporting marks that might be on the underframe somewhere, although the years may have taken their toll on any lettering that might have been there at one time.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Little mystery in Maumee, Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 3:00 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3051
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
NKP779 wrote:
The Maumee caboose sure looks like a B&O caboose.


She's actually C&O, a common wooden design on that road, with a number of examples preserved, including, if I recall correctly, two on the Cass Scenic Railroad.

This example at Maumee is missing its awnings over the windows, but is otherwise similar to this car on the Kokosing Gap Trail.

http://www.kokosinggaptrail.org/INTERES ... -11_98.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: Little mystery in Maumee, Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 6:13 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5021
J3a-614 wrote:
NKP779 wrote:
The Maumee caboose sure looks like a B&O caboose.


She's actually C&O, a common wooden design on that road, with a number of examples preserved, including, if I recall correctly, two on the Cass Scenic Railroad.

This example at Maumee is missing its awnings over the windows, but is otherwise similar to this car on the Kokosing Gap Trail.

http://www.kokosinggaptrail.org/INTERES ... -11_98.jpg


J3a-614:

Thanks for posting the info and the photo of the C&O caboose located on the Kokosing Gap Trail. If NKP779 had checked the original entry that started this thread, the original C&O number was given along with the fact that the C&O later sold the caboose to the Toledo Terminal Railroad.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Little mystery in Maumee, Ohio
PostPosted: Thu Dec 07, 2017 11:13 pm 

Joined: Wed Apr 08, 2009 5:47 pm
Posts: 45
Location: Homeworth, Ohio
This thread has me on quest to help. I have found the following so far. The station and equipment are on the grounds of the Wolcott Heritage Center https://sites.google.com/view/maumeevalleyhistoricalsociety/museum-complex/maumee-clover-leaf-depot
Perhaps a call or email to them to have the trucks looked at for info on the boxcar could be made.
I also found these pics online as well. http://www.west2k.com/ohpix/maumee.jpg
The caboose is marked TT RR and the boxcar is in a primer red paint. If you wish to zoom in on the photos, hold down the Ctrl key and use the wheel on your mouse to make larger.

Hope this little bit of info helps.
Rob


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