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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:16 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:41 pm
Posts: 96
rem1028 wrote:
Without official word from WMSR, I would give this absolutely no credibility whatsoever. From that "Project 1309" facebook page it says that the people claiming that the page is run by Shaner are "so jealous of him that they can't stand it". Who else but that loon would claim that anyone was jealous of him? Note that one of the pages "liked" by this page is the Steel City Railway Historical Society, another nonsensical Facebook page run by Shaner relating to B & LE 643. I wouldn't even be surprised if Shaner typed up that letter and then scribbled the signatures. At any rate, it's been brought to the attention of the WMSR.

John


Like it or not, the 1309 project is in fact, suspended. I have it from more than one credible source confirming it as such. It will be interesting to see the how this shakes things up with the state of MD after pumping substantial grant dollars towards its restoration. What has not been made clear is if the suspension is indefinite or temporary. There has been substantial work done to date and much currently in progress. Should it be indefinite, I wonder how that affects the terms of sale between the B&O Museum and the WMSR? Anyone with more knowledge on that care to comment further?

Best,
DC


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:12 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:30 am
Posts: 98
I highly doubt it's indefinite, if it's even real. Too much money has been spent and the project is too close to completion to just stop it entirely.


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1607
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
Without violating any confidences I can say that as of about 1 week ago the status was that work was progressing albeit at a VERY slow pace and that the "climate" in the shop was very guarded.

It's possible that things have come to a halt on account of lack of cash. Let's hope the WMSR will issue an official update soon.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:31 pm
Posts: 236
http://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/20 ... -17-update

CUMBERLAND, Md. — A lack of money is forcing the Western Maryland Scenic Railroad to stop all work on restoring Chesapeake & Ohio 2-6-6-2 No. 1309.


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 6:24 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1607
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
Well now it's official. Darn shame. Let's hope it can be revived.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:56 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 1814
The folks at WMSR will likely wait out the winter while they go back to the legislature in January for another round of State funding as part of the bond bill process.

Wesley


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:35 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2097
Like many other projects, it'll be done when its done and not before. 765 was a lot of weekend work, people having normal jobs and duking it out on the weekend getting 765 going.


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:09 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 1896
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
As mentioned earlier, nearly all projects run late and over budget. My question is, are we learning anything to make more accurate forecasts in the future? Is there any hope that the next project will follow a predetermined plan?

Related, I believe 611's return to service did follow budget and plan. Is my information correct? Was it luck, or better planning methods?

Project this forward, is there any hope that projects like Maine Central 470 or Nashville 576 will have a better experience?

Can these methods be taught or shared, or are they still heavily dependent on subjective experience and qualitative decision making?

In our own recent return to service of a Swedish engine, 1307, I can say from experience that a real problem was an inability to identify or accept that many more systems needed repair that were first identified on the restoration proposal. In particular, not enough caution was taken to look for a) corrosion damage while in storage and b) wear that had accumulated in service ten years ago, but had not been documented or recognized. Much of this knowledge existed only in the memories of deceased or departed members.

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Steven Harrod
Lektor
Danmarks Tekniske Universitet
Institut for Systemer, Produktion, og Ledelse


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:31 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2097
611 had a differrent funding going, the donation channels were going etc, 1309 they're relying on other funding. better to open the donation coffers, but their business structure may be differrent.


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:43 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 1814
C&O 1309 relies in part on "bond bill" funding from the Maryland General Assembly. While generous, the bond bill program has its requirements including a trip through the Board of Public Works for final authorization to release funds. I do not know the specifics of the WMSR funding plan for C&O 1309 but they appear to be doing the bond bill dance in multi-year steps as they also get deeper into restoration and repair of the locomotive. We faced similar issues on a smaller and thankfully less visible scale when we started building our new campus in the early 2000s.

In summary, The bond bill program requires a 100 percent match in the form of patience.

Wesley


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 11:56 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:58 pm
Posts: 874
LeoA wrote:
I highly doubt it's indefinite, if it's even real. Too much money has been spent and the project is too close to completion to just stop it entirely.




ever hear of 1361?


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:06 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:16 pm
Posts: 30
Dave Lewandoski wrote:
LeoA wrote:
I highly doubt it's indefinite, if it's even real. Too much money has been spent and the project is too close to completion to just stop it entirely.




ever hear of 1361?


I don’t think the 1309 project has reached the debacle level of the never ending saga that is 1361. WMSR management greatly underestimated the complexity of work involved in rebuilding large, heavily used Mallet locomotive. Then they made the error of promising a done date thereby violating the first rule of locomotive restoration- She will be done when she’s done.

Working within the grant funding system takes patients, political savvy, good public relations and more than just a bit of luck. The railroad doesn’t need the preservation community jumping on the badmouthing bandwagon with the foamers and members of the public who think such projects are a waste of money. I want to see 1309 storm it’s way to Frostburg in the worst way, let us remain supportive.


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:01 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 399
Anyone else find it odd that Steamtown's BLW #26 has taken more flak around here than 1309, and she's actually completely rebuilt and operational? Didn't WMSR send 1309's drivers to Strasburg only to leave them out in the weather once they got them back?

The 1309 people, like the 1361 people, have dropped their fire. Eventually these projects either find a new home or experience a shake up in management and get going again (like 3713 at SNHS), but we will still have posters on here pretending that it's ten or twenty years ago and nothing has changed (good OR bad).

I know we all get attached to certain pieces of equipment, but when you can see the writing on the wall and you know that either the management or the money just isn't there, move on and support a project that IS being run properly.

Steam is complicated, and every group sees a setback from time to time - it's just part of the process. Don't jump ship at the first hiccup, but don't reward gross mismanagement, either.


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:46 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 1753
"Anyone else find it odd that Steamtown's BLW #26 has taken more flak around here than 1309, and she's actually completely rebuilt and operational? Didn't WMSR send 1309's drivers to Strasburg only to leave them out in the weather once they got them back?"

Yes.

If you think your project is going to neatly fall along your PERT/CPM that are essentially exercises in idealistic perfection, diagrams-with no surprises-you're sadly mistaken.


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:20 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:06 am
Posts: 146
softwerkslex wrote:
...Related, I believe 611's return to service did follow budget and plan. Is my information correct? Was it luck, or better planning methods?...


Steven, I would offer that this may well be an apples to rutabagas comparison. The 611 return was from fantrip service and not from regular service where the engine is merely a tool to squeeze every revenue penny out of as was the 1309. Having seen the engine at WMSR even though it had only seen a few years of service the running gear was all but used up. The 611 had not been stuffed & mounted in a park setting for nearly as many decades since its last run. The 611 also has the advantage that some of the people who worked on her are still alive. I don't know if any were consulted but it would make a lot of sense to do so. My opinion and worth what you've paid for it.....mld


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