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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:53 am 

Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:55 am
Posts: 71
co614 wrote:
The cost/revenue mile of running the 1309 vs. 734 will certainly be MUCH higher in both direct costs ( coal,water,lubricants,labor) and indirect ( track maintenance) and for an organization that needs to operate profitably that's a major consideration.

And let's be honest. The number of potential riders willing to pay a substantial premium to enjoy seeing this articulated giant at work in order to compensate for her higher expense is VERY tiny.

All that being said....there's no going back now so let's hope they can generate enough cash fares to stay in the black??

IMHO-Ross Rowland


Over the years we have been visiting the line, we always experienced the trains being pushed by a diesel, meaning extra costs for personnel, fuel, loco maintenance et al.

Wasn't one of the reasons 1309 had been chosen to get rid of the diesel?

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:10 am 

Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:39 pm
Posts: 2
484Mike wrote:
co614 wrote:
The cost/revenue mile of running the 1309 vs. 734 will certainly be MUCH higher in both direct costs ( coal,water,lubricants,labor) and indirect ( track maintenance) and for an organization that needs to operate profitably that's a major consideration.

And let's be honest. The number of potential riders willing to pay a substantial premium to enjoy seeing this articulated giant at work in order to compensate for her higher expense is VERY tiny.

All that being said....there's no going back now so let's hope they can generate enough cash fares to stay in the black??

IMHO-Ross Rowland


Over the years we have been visiting the line, we always experienced the trains being pushed by a diesel, meaning extra costs for personnel, fuel, loco maintenance et al.

Wasn't one of the reasons 1309 had been chosen to get rid of the diesel?

Mike



Yes, diesels helpers were being used 40% of the time, and of that 40%, half required both diesels. Now multiply that over a 15-year operating cycle. Also, 1309 is a relatively small locomotive with each driving wheel set having a shorter wheelbase than 734 with an axle loading almost exactly that of their GP-30s. So in that regard, 1309 makes sense.

Now, if you factor in that WMSR's ridership has dropped from 37,000 in 2015 to 26,000 in 2016 and even lower this year, then Mr. Garner is correct, you don't need 1309. By the same token, if ridership keeps declining, he wouldn't need 734 either. He could just rent an 0-6-0 to have steam.

In my opinion, Mr. Garner is in survival mode. Last year he was saying ridership was up, and if only the landslide were fixed they'd be in good shape. Fast forward to 2017 and he's getting caught by missed in service dates for 1309 (not unexpected with any program), cars and locomotives that he can't run because of "FRA safety issues" but were operable in 2016, and what turned out to be significant decreases in ridership. Now, it comes out about financial problems. Perhaps everything wasn't as good as he led everyone to believe and he has to blame something.


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:34 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1607
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
I'd agree that the WMSR is going through a rough stretch and I would urge all my fellow steam lovers (who can do so) to make a cash donation to help them get the 1309 done and in service for all of us to enjoy.

From sources I trust the work is coming along well and unless something totally unexpected comes out of the woodwork my guess is that she'll be boiling water before this coming winters snows melt??

These complete rebuilds are NEVER easy and always take longer and cost more than anyone estimates. It's the nature of the beast.

Thanks, Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:04 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 1814
Quote:
THE DESTINATION: Once you watch the locomotive being turned, there is really nothing to do at Frostburg. L


I would agree with this assessment. My wife and I visited ca 1992 and had the same experience. WMSR made a nice day trip from the DC suburbs so we were satisfied but not motivated to return. The operation of C&O 1309 will be an incentive to make a return visit. I wish them well.

Wesley


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:19 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 463
WPfan wrote:
Now, if you factor in that WMSR's ridership has dropped from 37,000 in 2015 to 26,000 in 2016 and even lower this year,
A few years ago, I was riding a photo charter in the west when some of the other participants began enthusiastically discussing how much they were looking forward to seeing #1309. The manager of another heritage railroad then chimed in. He said that he didn't understand the WMSR's business model and pointed out that the WMSR's yearly ridership was less than what his company carries during a single weekend with Thomas or the Polar Express.


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:02 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 454
Location: B'more Maryland
Everyone sure enjoys kicking someone when they're down, eh?

There's so much negativity in this thread.

Aren't we all on the same team here?


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:26 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3050
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
A new video report from the WMSR.

https://vimeo.com/228503289?ref=fb-share


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 4:21 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 1895
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
We are all on the same team, and many of us are trying stop a future Gettysburg, Indiana Transportation Museum, Canberra museum, etc. All too often, we see an announcement "Hi, I am Joe and I am soliciting donations for the restoration of old 1234. We'll be under steam soon!" and there is no business plan and no sound management structure. Over and over again, these shared messages have demonstrated that without a sound financial and management plan, things go bad, and the very objects that we claim to be protecting get damaged or worse scrapped. This is especially bad in the maritime preservation field, and the reason so many historic ships have been lost in the past 20 years.

There is no pleasure in finding fault, but there is a great desire to warn others not to repeat these events.

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Steven Harrod
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Danmarks Tekniske Universitet
Institut for Systemer, Produktion, og Ledelse


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:11 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:44 pm
Posts: 26
Upon a recent visit to the area, I learned that a few of the contractors have not been paid in 2 months and have left the job. Outstanding bills over $15,000. What a quagmire.

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“Railroad people are special. Like all the rest, they lose jobs, have to move, are underpaid. More than the rest of us, they hold the locomotive in awe.”
-Stephen Ambrose


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:01 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:41 pm
Posts: 96
blueflag wrote:
Upon a recent visit to the area, I learned that a few of the contractors have not been paid in 2 months and have left the job. Outstanding bills over $15,000. What a quagmire.


Is this fact or speculation?

Sources?


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:16 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:44 pm
Posts: 26
Donald Cormack wrote:
blueflag wrote:
Sources?


The ones that walked off the job.

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“Railroad people are special. Like all the rest, they lose jobs, have to move, are underpaid. More than the rest of us, they hold the locomotive in awe.”
-Stephen Ambrose


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:25 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:41 pm
Posts: 96
blueflag wrote:
Donald Cormack wrote:
blueflag wrote:
Sources?


The ones that walked off the job.


Childish banter. Provide substantiated proof of this and perhaps you'll be taken more seriously.


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 12:34 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8391
Location: Baltimore, MD
I have no "hard facts" to cite--and if you think about it, naming names in a circumstance like this is a sure way to lose your job............

............ but the "grapevine" I have my ear to here in Baltimore, a "rumor mill" of people who have proven themselves trustworthy in such matters, also reports a "work stoppage."

I really want to be proven wrong, but I'm not holding my breath.


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 12:44 pm
Posts: 26
Donald Cormack wrote:
]

Childish banter. Provide substantiated proof of this and perhaps you'll be taken more seriously.


When the railroad releases a press release that two contractors have walked off the job I'll be sure to send it to you.

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“Railroad people are special. Like all the rest, they lose jobs, have to move, are underpaid. More than the rest of us, they hold the locomotive in awe.”
-Stephen Ambrose


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 Post subject: Re: Progress on 1309?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:51 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 1814
Quote:
Upon a recent visit to the area, I learned that a few of the contractors have not been paid in 2 months and have left the job. Outstanding bills over $15,000. What a quagmire.


These are the "joys" of State bond bill reimbursements.

Wesley


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