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 Post subject: Re: The Graffiti Attacks Continue
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 12:21 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11496
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
In areas that are conservative in nature, those messages will likely look like these. In urban areas they'd be saying "MAGA".

It's not a tool of a particular ideology, it's a tool of immature minds lashing out to a world in which they feel otherwise powerless.


As previously stated, the location of this RR in the photos is a former "red" area now thoroughly "purple." For a similar syndrome, Arizona has now been declared for Biden, thanks in no small part to California Democrats relocating to Arizona and bringing their progressive expectations with them.

I spent the first two years of Trump's term in Baltimore City. I volunteered with the streetcar museum which was a stone's throw from the Maryland Institute College of Art, and for that reason the museum property was one of the richest and most frequented targets of graffiti.

Never ONCE, there or anywhere in Baltimore City, did I see any "MAGA" graffiti. And even if I ever did, my first presumption would be that it was a "false flag operation" done to make Trump supporters look like vandals.

Further, the anarchist/BLM/etc. graffiti that has been done of late has been in cities with little or no prosecution of those even caught in the act--all left-leaning urban areas, NOT "conservative" areas.

Your theory badly fails the "real world" test.
Feel free to submit evidence supporting your theory, such as "MAGA" graffiti in identifiable locations in Baltimore, DC, etc.


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 Post subject: Re: The Graffiti Attacks Continue
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 1:22 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:39 pm
Posts: 69
I concur with Alexander. Vandalism is not a form of expression of "" immature minds lashing out to a world in which they feel otherwise powerless "". Mexican and others south of USA are one of the most organized criminal enterprises in the western hemisphere. In the recent news, from office of the president of Mexico on down. Their operations start recruiting from age 12, in California, most of the hit-men from this are MS13 or child contractors because to murder under age 18 is a free pass. One reason to move and sell out is the recent MS13 gang markings for territory in our area.

The only vandalism we see are organized crime either Latino or other organized crime. In this area "Latino" gardening services are operating as organized crime units, spotting homes to rob and down to mailbox robbery on an industrial level. Currently under FBI investigation but I don't expect them to do anything, just lots of talk to the general area residents with community meetings telling us to accept the level of crime " for the good of the community ".

Immature minds are the fault of defective parenting or biological defects. I started ranch working at age 12, by 13 purchased my first car by picking oranges in the groves along side the Mexican laborers. By 15 had my own tractor and backhoe service using equipment I eared myself. At that time I could get a drivers license at age 15.5 . If I can do it so can any other spoiled lazy no good brat out there. My Father was a good man and he was smart enough to let me go out and take on enterprise on my own. He did not subsidize what I did.

Never did anyone I knew growing up in a responsible community, " vandalized " anyone's property. It was just not right, not even stealing food. To walk onto someones 20 acre orange grove and start grabbing oranges was just not done. Go knock on their door and ask.


Dan


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 Post subject: Re: The Graffiti Attacks Continue
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:12 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 1116
Location: B'more Maryland
ZOBEX wrote:
Vandalism is not a form of expression of "" immature minds lashing out to a world in which they feel otherwise powerless "".

ZOBEX wrote:
The only vandalism we see are organized crime either Latino or other organized crime. In this area "Latino" gardening services are operating as organized crime units, spotting homes to rob and down to mailbox robbery on an industrial level.


Wait. Vandalism is organized crime? I'm not following you here.


ZOBEX wrote:
Immature minds are the fault of defective parenting or biological defects. I started ranch working at age 12, by 13 purchased my first car by picking oranges in the groves along side the Mexican laborers. By 15 had my own tractor and backhoe service using equipment I eared myself. At that time I could get a drivers license at age 15.5 . If I can do it so can any other spoiled lazy no good brat out there.


Congratulations. Not all kids have the same upbringing or are free from "biological defects". What do you propose we do in those cases?

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 Post subject: Re: The Graffiti Attacks Continue
PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:13 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
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Location: B'more Maryland
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Never ONCE, there or anywhere in Baltimore City, did I see any "MAGA" graffiti. And even if I ever did, my first presumption would be that it was a "false flag operation" done to make Trump supporters look like vandals.


So why isn't that your first presumption here, too? That it's a bunch of red hatted kids doing this to make BLM advocates look like vandals?

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 Post subject: Re: The Graffiti Attacks Continue
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:01 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11496
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
So why isn't that your first presumption here, too? That it's a bunch of red hatted kids doing this to make BLM advocates look like vandals?


Because "red-hatted kids" (which, BTW, is something I've not actually seen) in theory: 1) actually respect the concept of private property and 2) have JOBS and/or schoolwork.


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 Post subject: Re: The Graffiti Attacks Continue
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:04 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11496
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Incidentally, the correspondent from the RR in this thread has reported back:

Quote:
I arrived at the [railroad] early this morning and my first stop was the two bridges. Sure enough, there was new graffiti. Not as much as the last time, and not so angry, but it was there. Since rain is on tap for tonight, and I already had a full day scheduled for today at the [line], I decided to take care of it next Wednesday.

I'm attaching some samples of today's messes.

This is time and effort I could be putting in on restoring rolling stock but instead, because of young [CENSORED]-for-brains with spray paint, other work is being delayed. I imagine many other such tourist railroads have the same problem.


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 Post subject: Re: The Graffiti Attacks Continue
PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:17 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11496
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
Congratulations. Not all kids have the same upbringing or are free from "biological defects". What do you propose we do in those cases?


It's been my experience:

1) "Immature minds" don't listen well to reason and drawn-out debate over complex issues, but instead react primarily emotionally;

2) Minds that are too "immature" to listen to reason and sense sometimes MUST, instead be dealt with forcefully--from the smack on the toddler's hand to spare them from burning themselves on the hot pan on the stove, to corporal punishment in more egregious cases of misbehavior (not endorsing corporal punishment as a strategy, but some people are to immature to be "reasoned" with otherwise), to incarceration.

When discussing the issues, one has to be careful to distinguish between reasons, rationalizations, and excuses. Lead poisoning or an upbringing in a turbulent household may be the reason that a youth may act/react viscerally violently, but it does not excuse the behavior. Spraying graffiti on other's property without permission,as either "artistic expression" or "speech," honestly doesn't have any excuse, only at best some especially strained "rationalizations."


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 Post subject: Re: The Graffiti Attacks Continue
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 3:00 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
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Location: B'more Maryland
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
So why isn't that your first presumption here, too? That it's a bunch of red hatted kids doing this to make BLM advocates look like vandals?


Because "red-hatted kids" (which, BTW, is something I've not actually seen) in theory: 1) actually respect the concept of private property and 2) have JOBS and/or schoolwork.


Or are busy bullying kids who don't look like them...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.jackso ... ate=ampart

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 Post subject: Re: The Graffiti Attacks Continue
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 12:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11496
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
So why isn't that your first presumption here, too? That it's a bunch of red hatted kids doing this to make BLM advocates look like vandals?


Because "red-hatted kids" (which, BTW, is something I've not actually seen) in theory: 1) actually respect the concept of private property and 2) have JOBS and/or schoolwork.


Or are busy bullying kids who don't look like them...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.jackso ... ate=ampart


1) There has been bullying going on in schools for centuries. Indeed, one "classic" of English literature, Tom Brown's School Days by Thomas Hughes (1857), centers almost completely around the subject.

2) you had to reach back a year and a half to find ONE alleged such incident.

3) what would your reaction be if I proposed the application of your own hypothesis--that this is a case of people falsely portraying themselves as "the opposition" just to besmirch that opposition to the public eye?
(Now, if you can scoff at such a notion--which I honestly think you should--then understand why I'm allowed to scoff at your equally tenuous notion that this graffiti is a "false flag" operation as well.)


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 Post subject: Re: The Graffiti Attacks Continue
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:55 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:39 pm
Posts: 69
I was not going to continue on the vandalism subject but as Alexander posted response I simply used google. FALSE FLAG VANDALISM

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/ny-man-accused-of-vandalizing-own-car-with-pro-trump-graffiti-for-attention/

This is a November 2020 event if I read it correctly. BTW that same Trump supporter victim was stopped 2 days after this and charged for having two illegal hand guns in his car.

A curious follow up as well. Saturday I spent the day helping my Brother do some cleanup on his now defunct chicken ranch house, surrounded by later development. Vandalism naturally. In that area it is custom to leave out unwanted items for the locals to pick and choose before trashing them. Now "latino" professional junk collectors comb the area. Being nice I gave them a dead washing machine for scrap and the adjacent land owner some outdoor furniture. On the street edge is a street light and the neighbor parks her 2019 ford 3/4 truck under the street light and about 20 feet from the front door. Small houses. I noticed the junk picker had been eyeballing her truck. She comes out Sunday morning heading to church, starts the truck. Someone had sneaked under the truck that night and saw cut out the catalytic converter. On new vehicles it is factory welded in and can not be unbolted. Further it is serial numbered to the vehicle and that number is registered with with the government so it can not be installed in any other vehicle. So is that vandalism or theft or both ?


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 Post subject: Re: The Graffiti Attacks Continue
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 11:48 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
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Location: New Franklin, OH
ZOBEX wrote:
So is that vandalism or theft or both ?

Concerning the removal of the catalytic converter, that is theft - the unauthorized taking of another’s property. Vandalism is the willful damaging or destruction of property that diminishes it’s value. I suppose that they could add a vandalism charge on top of the theft but the primary crime would be theft.

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 Post subject: Re: The Graffiti Attacks Continue
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:39 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11496
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
ZOBEX wrote:
I was not going to continue on the vandalism subject but as Alexander posted response I simply used google. FALSE FLAG VANDALISM

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/ny-man-accused-of-vandalizing-own-car-with-pro-trump-graffiti-for-attention/

This is a November 2020 event if I read it correctly. BTW that same Trump supporter victim was stopped 2 days after this and charged for having two illegal hand guns in his car.


I've read a lot on the "false flag syndrome," which has a long history in hoaxes and frauds (a subset of scientific inquiry I collect books on).
The point of such a tactic is not simply to denigrate an opponent/party/etc. being fraudulently credited, but also to call attention to the alleged "victimization" and garner sympathy (and maybe money contributions and/or sanctions against the accused--see Al Sharpton and Tawana Brawley).
To work effectively, attention--the more, the better--MUST be called to the supposed misdeeds of the falsely-accused. Otherwise, it does no good in making the supposed perpetrators look bad, or making the victims appear victimized.

There is no evidence that this was done with regards to the graffiti at the RR in question. Therefore, the "false flag" hypothesis is most highly unlikely IN THIS CASE.


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 Post subject: Re: The Graffiti Attacks Continue
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:28 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
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Location: B'more Maryland
So my point, which I believe holds, is that vandalism, even with political content, is not necessarily a core component or legitimate tactic of any political ideology but is the work of miscreants who use that political content to amplify their... bad behavior.

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 Post subject: Re: The Graffiti Attacks Continue
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:36 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11496
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
So my point, which I believe holds, is that vandalism, even with political content, is not necessarily a core component or legitimate tactic of any political ideology but is the work of miscreants who use that political content to amplify their... bad behavior.


[looks at extensive use of graffiti, and its content, in the so-called "civil unrest" in various leftist-run cities nationwide......]

I'm................. a-jes' gonna let the inanity of that extraordinarily stretched rationalization of the irrational stand for itself..........

................ and stand WAAAAAAAY over here to be well out of the way of the carnage that occurs when that stretched reasoning finally snaps................


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 Post subject: Re: The Graffiti Attacks Continue
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 5:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 1116
Location: B'more Maryland
You will be hard pressed to find a city in the United States run by an actual "leftist" despite what Fox News, Oann and Newsmax will try and have you believe.

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