|Railway Preservation News
|Possible Flying Scotaman sale
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|Author:||Bob Yarger [ Wed Nov 12, 2003 11:49 am ]|
|Post subject:||Possible Flying Scotaman sale|
From BBC News.
|Author:||Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:12 pm ]|
|Post subject:||VERY old news...............|
> From BBC News.
Hopelessly outdated (2 years old, Bob!). The stock offering was made back then (basically "penny stock", minimum purchase something like Â£100); the company's shares have since been recently delisted for low share price, and the company is in serious financial trouble, having "lost" something like Â£375,000 in the past year (repair expenses). Our own "Flimsies" has a more recent report indicating that a worst-case scenario COULD see the loco sold to an overseas (read: USA) party shortly.
This is no simple matter here; this case could probably go down as an ideal example of how NOT to ensure a locomotive's long-term future.
|Author:||jimwrinn [ Wed Nov 12, 2003 12:45 pm ]|
|Post subject:||Heck, Sandy, I thought you bought it already!|
Seriously, given the current lack of capital in the U.S. for railway preservation projects, what is the thinking that it might be sold in the U.S.? Jim
|Author:||John Stewart [ Wed Nov 12, 2003 1:06 pm ]|
|Post subject:||Re: Heck, Sandy, I thought you bought it already!|
This kind of marketing happens everywhere, except in the good ol' USA.
"The bloody yanks will buy it unless..." tends to rally the troops.
You guys have more disposable income than the rest of the world combined; heck, there is even a market taking old barns apart and sending them south; things tend to gravitate to the states, but rarely leave.
So, in the flying scotsman story, it is just to try to raise national sentiment at the expense of feelings towards the USA.
> Seriously, given the current lack of capital
> in the U.S. for railway preservation
> projects, what is the thinking that it might
> be sold in the U.S.? Jim
|Author:||Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed Nov 12, 2003 7:11 pm ]|
|Post subject:||Truth be told............|
..... I DID attempt to purchase a share, but the combined minimum purchase requirement, combined with a somewhat-fishy prospectus (described by my broker as "give us your money and don't ask questions") basically kept me from acting on the impulse. Good thing, I see.
Seriously, the concept of share-held locomotives is not that farfetched, and several British preservation groups, mostly diesel groups like the D9000 Locomotive group (owner of two operable Deltics), seem to do well with the concept. I think the plan with 4472 was primarily attempting to "cash in" on the loco's profound celebrity (it makes, say, SP 4449 look like a third-rate loco in celebrity rating among the general public). I'm awaiting magazine reports detailing the story behind the story more specifically before I comment. But just as a somewhat comparable situation, imagine if Chessie 614 had shares sold in her by Ross Rowland, who then still retained a controlling interest.
As for who in the USA would attempt to buy such a loco? Who the heck knows? But far stranger things have happened--including the same loco's 1969-73 presence in the USA on tour (also a financial disaster) and the purchase and relocation of "London Bridge" to Lake Havasu City, Arizona. Although the reports I have been reading indicate both US and German parties have expressed an interest in the loco, I wouldn't put it past the analysis above, that it's pure panic incitement mixed with a dose of anti-Americanism.
|Author:||Joshua [ Wed Nov 12, 2003 9:47 pm ]|
|Post subject:||Re: Truth be told............|
When I was in the UK in the late 80s there was rumor of 4472 being sold to the Japanese. Don't know how trure that was. Some British stock has come over to the states and since repatriated though.
An 0-4-4 (LNWR?) and Southern 4-4-0 "Repton," both to Steamtown USA and restored since coming back to the UK.
-Carriages [not coaches!!! :) ] recently from the National Railway Museum.
And there's two A4s in North America I'm sure they'd love to have back, though efforts have not progressed though.
A GWR 4-6-0 express passenger engine was brought back from Australia after being there since the 70s.
|Author:||Ted Miles [ Thu Nov 13, 2003 12:03 am ]|
|Post subject:||Re: Moving Artifacts...........|
If I recall two or three steam engines went bavk to England or Ireland from the Steamtown Foundation Auctions several years ago.
And last year an 1879 Pilot schooner the Wander Bird, which has been in San Francisco since the 1930s went home to the Elbe River in Hamburg, Germany the same one in which she was sailed in the 1800s.
A couple of the cars at the Museum of Rail Travel in Cranbrook,BC went back to Canada from Wisconsin.
But it is mostly the other way. Seashore Trolley Museum has a Budapest subway car and more recently a trolley bus and trailer from Switzerland.
National Capital Museum has several European cars and I think; lost a couple in their recent car barn fire.
That Flying Scotsman belongs in England, her tour was before my time but from all reports it was a mess for all concerned. I never did hear how they scrapped up the money to ship her home.
|Author:||dave [ Thu Nov 13, 2003 7:32 am ]|
Wouldn't it be intersting to be able to visit an international steam railway museum and compare trains from various countries side by side?
In York a Chinese copy of an Alco sits adjacent to MALLARD and both can be viewed at the same time from the same POV. MALLARD is dwarfed by the freight hog but is a world record holder.
In Cripple Creek 2 foot gage power from Porter is working with power from 3 different European builders.
It would be wonderful to gather representative examples of all the variations in one place - might I suggest Cuba - as the basis of an international railway museum.
|Author:||ge13031 [ Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:11 am ]|
|Post subject:||Re: Musical Chairs|
The Railway Preservation Industry has finally come of age! There is enough money, resources and facilities to shuffle ALL remaining railroad equipment back to its most significant country of operation, to the railroad of its most significant operation, and restore the equipment to the most significant phase of its operation.
When the music stops feel free to grab a seat ...
|Author:||Jim Robinson [ Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:49 am ]|
|Post subject:||The "Flying Dutchess"...|
...another British lok away from home and in the US.
Back in the early/mid 1970's, the now-gone Boyne City Railroad in MI operated tourist service using a matched set of 3 British passenger cars and a British 0-6-0 tank engine they called the "Flying Dutchess". The locomotive was ex-Meaford Power Station (Stafordshire) 7745, a Stephenson product of 1953. On days when the steam train wasn't operating, the BC RR ran a train of open excursion cars behind their GE 44-ton diesel.
About 1976 the whole railroad was auctioned off and I believe a private individual acquired the "Flying Dutchess" 0-6-0T. I'm about 99.9% sure the engine spent some time at the Tennessee Valley Railroad Museum and I think it ran a time or two (or more??) while there. I think I remember seeing a photo of the 0-6-0T coming out of the TVRM's tunnel. I believe the "Flying Dutchess" is now stored in Louisville, KY, still under private ownership.
I wonder if there has been any thought of returning this lowly power plant shunter to England.
Also, anyone know what happened to the 3 British coaches that were used with the locomotive in MI? I thought 1 of those cars had went along with the engine when it went to the TVRM(??).
To maybe stir up some memories of ANOTHER 60's/70's "fallen flag" steam tourist line, see the below link for a photo of the "Flying Dutchess" and train running on the Boyne City RR. Remember this is "merry ol' Michigan" and not "merry ol' England"!
The Flying Dutchess
|Author:||Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:55 am ]|
|Post subject:||You HAVE to be kidding..........|
> The Railway Preservation Industry has
> finally come of age! There is enough money,
> resources and facilities to shuffle ALL
> remaining railroad equipment back to its
> most significant country of operation, to
> the railroad of its most significant
> operation, and restore the equipment to the
> most significant phase of its operation.
Let's just wait for Papa Castro to drop dead to prove this fantasy incorrect. Cuba has a fair number of significant preservation candidates in the dead lines over there (including locos from the Buffalo, Rochester & Pittsburgh, P&LE, and NYO&W), as well as some real jewels with potential for any tourist-geared, less-historic-preservation operation (think Grand Canyon RR, Strasburg, Huckleberry RR, Napa Valley Wine Train, expendable locos for the WW&F, etc.). But my firm prediction is that the scrappers will have the money ready first.
|Author:||Jim Robinson [ Thu Nov 13, 2003 9:56 am ]|
|Post subject:||Another view of The "Flying Dutchess"...|
See below link for a closer "roster shot" view of the Flying Dutchess while operating on the BC RR in MI.
The Flying Dutchess, closer look
|Author:||Jim Robinson [ Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:26 am ]|
|Post subject:||Re: Another view from the Boyne City RR|
See below link for another view from the long-gone Boyne City Railroad. The "Flying Duchess" (no "t" as in the other posts) in the yard with the enginehouse and car shops in the backround. The car shop contained a large railway museum exhibit including a Russell snow plow, caboose, and a wooden business car. I believe all of this (except for the depot) is now gone.
Boyne City RR
|Author:||Rob Davis [ Thu Nov 13, 2003 10:48 am ]|
|Post subject:||Re: You HAVE to be kidding..........|
It got squashed last night. No change in the Cuban embargo. Guess we wait...
|Author:||Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Thu Nov 13, 2003 12:44 pm ]|
|Post subject:||Cuban embargo, shembargo.........|
> It got squashed last night. No change in the
> Cuban embargo. Guess we wait...
So? We have LOTS of British and Canadian spies who have already done the legwork, identified every damn steamer in Cuba, and are continuing to keep tabs on the conditions. All WE need to do is identify potential preservation candidates (the best condition steamers, historic ex-US steam, and lookalikes for other US steam such as the big 2-8-0s and 2-8-2s), and start raising the money now so it's available to swoop in with little warning.
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