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 Post subject: R&N 2102 - Cab Ride with commentary of near stall in 10/2023
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 4:20 pm 

Joined: Fri May 03, 2024 9:14 am
Posts: 5
Want to know what happens in the cab of a large steam locomotive when it's fighting wet rail and about to stall?

Find out in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VGe7LYqiiE&t=80s) as we ride along with the locomotive crew of Reading and Northern Railroad 2102 and give running commentary of what the engineer and fireman are doing to keep the train from stalling on the slippery rails! This video is steam railroading at its best and some of the best in cab footage ever caught on video.

A special thank you goes out to Steam Train Videos for their assistance in bringing you this video. Please go check out their website at www.steamtrainvideos.com for more great steam train video productions!
#steamingalongtheline #rn2102 #steam


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 Post subject: Re: R&N 2102 - Cab Ride with commentary of near stall in 10/
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 5:04 pm 

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:56 pm
Posts: 437
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Great piece of film. Thank you for posting.


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 Post subject: Re: R&N 2102 - Cab Ride with commentary of near stall in 10/
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2024 11:23 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1431
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Spectacular!

A T-1 has 68,000 lbs TE from the drivers, actually less than the I-10-s-a 2-8-0's from which 2102 was built. (71,000 lbs). However, that booster adds 11,400 lbs for a total of 79,400 lbs. I believe Chessie Steam Special 2101 used its booster on B&O's Sand Patch (in the rain) and 17 Mile grades.

Question: is 2102 the only steam engine built with a booster to be still putting it to good use?

The whistle sounds like the original freight single-note whistle. (SRC 4-CF&I/RDG/P&R 0-4-0 1187 is higher pitched.)

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: R&N 2102 - Cab Ride with commentary of near stall in 10/
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 8:21 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2334
I have seen references to 765's booster being strategically engaged.

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 Post subject: Re: R&N 2102 - Cab Ride with commentary of near stall in 10/
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 9:18 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 02, 2019 2:06 pm
Posts: 138
Overmod wrote:
I have seen references to 765's booster being strategically engaged.


765 does not have, nor has it ever had a booster.

I'm not sure, but I believe the only other locomotive currently operational with a booster may be SP4449 and it has been used on occasion. Other engines that have run in preservation with operating boosters include 614, 2716, 2839 and 1522. I'm guessing all have come in handy a time or two.


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 Post subject: Re: R&N 2102 - Cab Ride with commentary of near stall in 10/
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 12:06 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1285
Location: Pacific, MO
That is the best in-cab video I've seen. The narration is great for the folks who haven't been there.
We had a booster on 1522 and it DID come in handy a few times.
1522 was very sure footed and would work down to a stall without slipping, so the booster was a life saver. Frisco was a big user of Franklin boosters.
I never got into the situation that Shane did with the slippery rail, but got bailed out a couple times by the booster. I also used it a couple times to see how it could get you away from a stop quicker. Ours was louder than 2102's, almost sounded like a little Shay along with the engine's exhaust.
I miss that.


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 Post subject: Re: R&N 2102 - Cab Ride with commentary of near stall in 10/
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 12:18 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1592
I believe 4449 has a booster as well.


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 Post subject: Re: R&N 2102 - Cab Ride with commentary of near stall in 10/
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 12:33 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2022 8:31 am
Posts: 37
Hi
If you liked the you tube video from the first post, you will surely like another video from the same producer,, called Return of the Iron Horse Rambles Vol 3 Fall Foliage Cab rides,, with the Reading & Northern 2102.

The footage is just as good as in the first post,, video,, my friend and I rode the October 29th trip 2022,, a lot of slipping,, and the cab footage can't be beat..
I was looking for a DVD of the October 29th trip after we got back to Massachusetts and I did find it on Steamtrainvideos.com .. Pat.
Attachment:
At Jim Thorpe, Pa Oct 29th 2022 # 2.jpg
At Jim Thorpe, Pa Oct 29th 2022 # 2.jpg [ 100.05 KiB | Viewed 2345 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: R&N 2102 - Cab Ride with commentary of near stall in 10/
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2024 7:15 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1769
Location: Back in NE Ohio
I watched the video earlier today with great interest. I've got a ticket for this Saturday's trip. I do have a question or two. How is the steam to the booster engine regulated? Does it come off the main throttle? I saw the fireman open and close the valve for the steam on the turret, but there was no explanation about regulating it's admission to the booster engine. Also, is engaging it to the trailing truck automatic, or is there some kind of clutch involved, since it can be engaged and disconnected while moving? Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: R&N 2102 - Cab Ride with commentary of near stall in 10/
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2024 9:40 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2334
Quote:
"How is the steam to the booster engine regulated?"

On 2102, steam is taken from tue turret and supplied (via an air-operated valve) to the booster engine. You see the turret valve opened to supply steam down to that air-operated valve.

The booster uses a fairly complex 'relay logic' kind of control, actuated with pressure air (from the brake system). The British experimented with boosters in the 1920s and, since they used vacuum brakes, they had to adapt the booster control system -- I believe to use steam, as on a Hadfield reverser. See the references in the recent 'steam booster' thread here to see a diagram of the control air and its sequence of actuation. Here again for reference is the link to the Franklin C-1/C-2 booster manual:

http://users.fini.net/~bersano/english-anglais/locomotive_booster/locomotive_booster.pdf

Quote:
"Does it come off the main throttle?"

No, and that's intentional. Nor is it interlocked with the power reverse setting.

The cab control for the booster is reduced to a 'latch' lever. See the referenced operating instructions to see how the booster is idled to warm it up, cylinder cocks are opened and closed, etc.

Quote:
"I saw the fireman open and close the valve for the steam on the turret, but there was no explanation about regulating it's admission to the booster engine."

That valve only admits steam from the turret to the booster actuating valve. Essentially it 'arms' the booster for use.

Quote:
" ...is engaging it to the trailing truck automatic, or is there some kind of clutch involved, since it can be engaged and disconnected while moving?"

Again, your best bet is to read the Franklin operating manual to see exactly how the sequence of operations is intended to work.

When the latch is pulled up to engage the booster, the 'idler' is pulled in which connects the booster engine to the bull gear on the driven axle. The geometry of the gears and the idler frame is such that the idler is 'kicked out' when the engaging air pressure is relieved, although there were cases where this action had to be 'assisted' by reversing the booster engine -- hence the development of the 'reversible booster' (which does NOT boost when the locomotive is being backed...)

Again, there is little that is 'user-selectable' about the booster control, and this is by design (and the experienced judgment of the developers). The booster engine has no cutoff control, either manual or automatic: it runs much like a donkey engine, at fixed cutoff. Likewise the booster engine has no proportional throttle: when it is engaged, it runs; when disengaged, it cuts off. That is to make it as much of an 'appliance' as early-Twenties control theory could make it, so that the engineer can concentrate on the organ playing that is controlling the main engine in slippery conditions or when starting with a heavy train.

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 Post subject: Re: R&N 2102 - Cab Ride with commentary of near stall in 10/
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2024 10:18 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1769
Location: Back in NE Ohio
Thank you for the more detailed explanation. The first time I ever heard about trailing truck boosters was in 1977 when the Chessie Steam Special was in Cleveland, and I was able to get into the W. 3rd St. engine facility as part of being a volunteer for the Cuyahoga Valley Line at that time. I was standing beside the cab of 2101 and Steve Wickersham was up there and suddenly this mechanical noise started coming from under the cab of 2101 with steam coming out from the trailing truck. I yelled up to him asking what that was, and he said "booster engine", apparently testing it unengaged. They've always been a little bit of a mystery to me, since, as others here have noted, not many excursion engines have them. As I noted earlier, I'm planning on being on this Saturday's 2102 trip, and I was going to try and talk to someone on the engine crew about how it works, but you've saved me the trouble.


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 Post subject: Re: R&N 2102 - Cab Ride with commentary of near stall in 10/
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2024 2:21 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2023 1:55 pm
Posts: 49
Wonder how say the 765 or 611 would have handled that same pull?
I'd imagine them all to be pretty close.


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 Post subject: Re: R&N 2102 - Cab Ride with commentary of near stall in 10/
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2024 2:25 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1592
Tractive effort -

765 - 64,135
2102 - 68,000 + 11,000 from booster
611 - 80,000

Don’t underestimate the queen :) she’s the real deal.


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 Post subject: Re: R&N 2102 - Cab Ride with commentary of near stall in 10/
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2024 8:00 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:41 am
Posts: 141
Those numbers mean nothing on wet, contaminated rail. I had a train stall because of the carrier fluid Sperry puts down for their rail tester.


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 Post subject: Re: R&N 2102 - Cab Ride with commentary of near stall in 10/
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2024 8:11 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1592
BnOTolSub wrote:
Those numbers mean nothing on wet, contaminated rail. I had a train stall because of the carrier fluid Sperry puts down for their rail tester.


So do you think the 2102 would win then because of the booster?


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