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 Post subject: Seeking locomotive pilot drawings
PostPosted: Sat Sep 30, 2023 6:31 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:19 am
Posts: 63
Location: Ithaca, NY
Can anyone share information they might know about regarding re-creating a pilot such as that shown in the attached? Blueprints or drawings of some kind would be very helpful.


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking locomotive pilot drawings
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:49 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2169
That sort of looks like one of those pilots made from used superheater tubes. Nice looking engine though, I like the old style number on the cab.


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking locomotive pilot drawings
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 7:01 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2019 11:07 am
Posts: 45
While it is not the style and size of your pilot, this might get you some starting points.

https://www.nwhs.org/archivesdb/listdoc ... word=pilot

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Ken Miller


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking locomotive pilot drawings
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 8:04 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1706
Location: Back in NE Ohio
I've long heard of that style referred to as a "boiler tube" pilot, so I'm guessing that they started out being made from boiler tube stock?


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking locomotive pilot drawings
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 12:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1449
Location: Byers, Colorado
Usually these were made from used boiler tubes, as opposed to new stock. This looks like an AT&SF style pilot, a metal version of the traditional wooden cowcatcher. You could make one up using model railroad plans, the Santa Fe even printed up a book full of equipment plans for modelers at least 60 years ago. There are also plenty of examples you could copy on park display locomotives.

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 Post subject: Re: Seeking locomotive pilot drawings
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 2360
Finally, a light-hearted post that captures my attention-I was curious about these as a kid and even wrote to Trains in 1978 to ask about pilots-it always seemed odd to me that of all the safety appliances on a locomotive, railroads used these as brand device. The ones on the DL&W in particular seemed almost spindly and fragile. The answer was short and they got my initials wrong-in fairness I wasn't winning any penmanship awards then, either.

While not plans, there's a lot of patents related to locomotive pilots that might help in your search.

https://patents.google.com/?q=locomotive+pilot)&country=US&oq=country:US+locomotive+pilot

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis ... 066637.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking locomotive pilot drawings
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 2:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 2360
superheater wrote:
Finally, a light-hearted post that captures my attention-I was curious about these as a kid and even wrote to Trains in 1978 to ask about pilots-it always seemed odd to me that of all the safety appliances on a locomotive, railroads used these as brand device. The ones on the DL&W in particular seemed almost spindly and fragile. The answer was short and they got my initials wrong-in fairness I wasn't winning any penmanship awards then, either.

While not plans, there's a lot of patents related to locomotive pilots that might help in your search.

https://patents.google.com/?q=locomotive+pilot)&country=US&oq=country:US+locomotive+pilot

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis ... 066637.pdf


Was this one from the same fellow that devised EMD's Blomberg trucks?

https://patentimages.storage.googleapis ... 66303A.pdf


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking locomotive pilot drawings
PostPosted: Sun Oct 01, 2023 7:17 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2503
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
Yes, Martin P. Blomberg.

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: Seeking locomotive pilot drawings
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2023 12:20 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 11:19 am
Posts: 63
Location: Ithaca, NY
I believe the pilot in the photo is wood.


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking locomotive pilot drawings
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2023 7:32 pm 

Joined: Sat May 26, 2018 12:35 am
Posts: 18
I wonder if this might be of any use, even only for an example? There is a drawing of what appears to be a steel, boiler-tube pilot (apparently for a Duluth & Iron Range locomotive) featured in the American Engineer, Vol. 86, No. 7 [1912], on pg. 380; it can be viewed for free on the Internet Archive below:

https://archive.org/details/americanengineer861newy/

Probably not as useful for you, but for anyone else curious, there are also drawings of a Lake Shore & Michigan Southern short steel pilot (AE&RJ, Vol. 84 [June 1910], pg. 229):

https://archive.org/details/americanengineer84newy/

And a cast steel pilot, used on the PRR N1s 2-10-2's (Railway Mechanical Engineer, Vol. 93 [Feb. 1919], pg. 65):

https://archive.org/details/railwaymechanica93newy/


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 Post subject: Re: Seeking locomotive pilot drawings
PostPosted: Mon Oct 02, 2023 10:07 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2131
The 1922 Locomotive Cyclopedia is available in its entirety from both HathiTrust and Google Books. This features a selection of pilot detail drawings from pp.443 to 448. Note in particular fig. 754 on p.447, the Commonwealth Short-Nosed Integral cast-steel pilot.

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 Post subject: Re: Seeking locomotive pilot drawings
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 7:09 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 1721
Location: New Franklin, OH
First a disclaimer - I’m not a steam expert in any way, shape or form and I haven’t had my second cup of coffee yet. But, a few observations:

That’s definitely not a boiler tube pilot but are you sure that’s wood? It seems the loco is a little late in the game to have a wooden pilot (note disclaimer above). The “spokes”, or whatever you call them, appear to be rounded - extra steps ($$$) in the carpentry shop unless management decreed that they be so on their passenger equipment for that specific look. I’d also consider the maintenance and fragility of wood. You can bang out U-shaped sheet metal quickly all day long on a press brake in the metal shop and the whole thing bolts or rivets together. Also, with metal, all the different angles don’t need to be perfect to assemble unless you’re welding which wouldn’t be likely.

That said, either way you’ll need to dust off your calculator and apply your old geometry lessons. Or use CAD.

Now, on to that second cup of coffee….

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 Post subject: Re: Seeking locomotive pilot drawings
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 8:18 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2131
Much mnre likely (imho) that it's one of those Commonwealth-type cast pilots (probably using wood fabrication for a pattern).

You would not 'bolt' a pilot together if you expected it to work for any length of time. In modern construction you could use something like Huck bolts -- but you'd go blind on the cost. You may note that nowhere in the '22 Cyc do you see pressed-channel pilots being peddled -- although there is a pressed-steel version illustrated, it is one-piece formed sheet. For riveted construction you just bash your boiler tubes flat, drill or punch the ends, and use bent angle at the bottom.

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 Post subject: Re: Seeking locomotive pilot drawings
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 4:45 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 23, 2016 7:05 pm
Posts: 266
Looks very much like a wood pilot to me. It has a thick top mounting plank (wooden) and looks like a steel-wrapped (probably 3/8 x 2-1/2 strap) wood base. No reason at all it couldn't be bolted/riveted construction with wood. That's very old-school technology and for a pilot, which doesn't normally see really heavy stresses it would last a very long time. Think wooden NG cars that survive decades in the weather with minimal painting and high stress. Rounding the slats would only take a few minutes with a spoke shave, so not a big money detail. Also note the slats go all the way to the top of the mounting plank, which is necessary for the slats to properly bolt to it. The transom that supports the upper end of the four middle slats would also be wood, tenoned into the first long slats, and looks like plated with a steel cover.

No CAD or calculator needed, just a measuring tape and a carpenter's square in the hands of a capable carpenter, and a journeyman-level blacksmith to make the metal parts.

Looks like it's about a 42" pilot like the pg.380 one in burbri45's post, only a wood version instead of tube.

Looks like AWP290, a traditional southern road, so wood would be appropriate. Note the eagle mounted above the headlight and the short-arch visor. Very traditional.

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 Post subject: Re: Seeking locomotive pilot drawings
PostPosted: Wed Oct 04, 2023 9:00 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 1721
Location: New Franklin, OH
I noticed the eagle. Though at first I thought it was a duck. But what do I know….

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Turner of Wrenches, Drawer of Things


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