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 Post subject: YV 2-6-0 displayed in Vera Cruz Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:54 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:54 pm
Posts: 15
Displayed at the sea port in Vera Cruz Mexico is ex-Yosemite Valley 2-6-0 #29 that also served in the United de Yucatan rail line. Who now owns that displayed locomotive?


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 Post subject: Re: YV 2-6-0 displayed in Vera Cruz Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 1:58 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:54 pm
Posts: 15
En el puerto marítimo de Vera Cruz, México, se exhibe el ex-Yosemite Valley 2-6-0 #29 que también sirvió en la línea ferroviaria United de Yucatán. ¿A quién pertenece ahora esa locomotora expuesta?


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 Post subject: Re: YV 2-6-0 displayed in Vera Cruz Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2024 2:23 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1612
Location: Byers, Colorado
I would say that "the government" owns her. If you are asking because somebody wants to bring this locomotive back to the USA, I must advise you that she is covered by "National Patrimony" laws, which apply to any steam locomotive which is, or has ever been, owned by any government entity within the Republic of Mexico.

In fact, I was taken by surprise recently when a small seam locomotive from the Ferrocarril Tacubaya was legally exported to Germany. Because she was always privately owned there was no problem with National Patrimony. Locomotives bought by Disney from the UdeY left the country before these laws were passed, and the backlash following this transaction was the impetus for enacting them.

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 Post subject: Re: YV 2-6-0 displayed in Vera Cruz Mexico
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:35 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:54 pm
Posts: 15
Well. Is there a Mexican attorney in VeraCruz that could assist in getting this locomotive exported for a reasonable fee?


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 Post subject: Re: YV 2-6-0 displayed in Vera Cruz Mexico
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2024 5:00 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
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Location: Byers, Colorado
My advice is that it's IMPOSSIBLE. You're welcome to try, and I wish you the best of luck. For a financial consideration and reasonable expenses, I'd be willing to try on your behalf, BUT I'm not a lawyer. I'm a retired railroader. I was the last guy to get anything out of Guatemala, BUT it was a long time ago and it's a different country. The only result I could promise is that you'd waste some money. I'm sorry I can't offer you the encouragement you seek, but anybody who does is most likely trying to get in your pocket.

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 Post subject: Re: YV 2-6-0 displayed in Vera Cruz Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2024 1:19 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2017 3:54 pm
Posts: 15
Sammy: Thanks for your realistic comments. I think my biggest problem would be to find the local party that would have the juice to make a deal and at a reasonable price. Who would be that party I DO NOT KNOW at this stage and I feel there would be many grifters down there with their pockets ready to receive my financing and likely only to only to extend their middle finger instead transferring that loco.


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 Post subject: Re: YV 2-6-0 displayed in Vera Cruz Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2024 7:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
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Location: Byers, Colorado
We COULD look into it, but I'm only angling for a free vacation to Mexico.

Suppose a Mexican citizen wanted to buy the Statue of Liberty ?? How would that go over here ??

I notice you also are interested in Sierra #18. If there is ANY other locomotive on planet earth that might suit your purposes besides one in Mexico, maybe it would be more productive to pursue that instead.

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 Post subject: Re: YV 2-6-0 displayed in Vera Cruz Mexico
PostPosted: Thu Feb 15, 2024 9:29 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:18 am
Posts: 439
Location: San Francisco / Santa Monica
I am sympathetic to Pratricio's interest in the former YV locomotive. The Niles Canyon Railway is home two neat passenger cars from the line, and restoring an engine to match would be quite a coup. Some of the scenery through Niles Canyon is a bit similar to the former YV line as well. That said, the engine is now a part of Mexico's history, and their plinthed engines just don't go up for grabs from the way many city-owned locomotives do in the US. I am sure many would love to see this engine brought back to California, but I am personally doubtful that its possible.

I have no idea who Patricio is, but instead of tilting at windmills, I would suggest that they talk with Henry Baum about some of PLA/NCRy's great projects (some of which have not been fully announced) that could use more support. As a fellow fan of steam railroading, the organization has some great opportunities to bring more of that era back to life, but it will take a lot of help to make these things happen. Please forgive me if these conversations have already taken place, once again, I have no idea who you are or what your credentials are.

Thanks

Randy

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 Post subject: Re: YV 2-6-0 displayed in Vera Cruz Mexico
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2024 2:45 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1612
Location: Byers, Colorado
While my replies in this thread have been aimed at convincing Mr Patricio to pick a battle he can win, Arquitecto Ruiz has brought up a point I probably should have made:

Mexico has many educated, experienced, ETHICAL folks who love trains. Any number of them are friends of mine, or at least internet friends, and no doubt some of them would assist any effort to relocate this locomotive to a better home, even one in the USA. HOWEVER, my feeling is that the new railroad museum being built on the site of La Plancha roundhouse in Merida, Yucatan would also be interested in providing a home for this exhibit, and that their petition is much more likely to be considered by the Mexican government. National Patrimony is national law, after all.

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 Post subject: Re: YV 2-6-0 displayed in Vera Cruz Mexico
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 11:57 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:38 pm
Posts: 5
Does YV 29 still exist? Last I read several year’s ago (I forget where, but probably on Jack Burgess’ YV website), it was no longer on display at the Vera Cruz RR station and was presumed scrapped.


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 Post subject: Re: YV 2-6-0 displayed in Vera Cruz Mexico
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 4:00 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1612
Location: Byers, Colorado
My experience in Latin America is that if you REALLY want the lowdown on a particular locomotive, you have to go there and track it down yourself.

The tenders I obtained in Guatemala for Sumpter Valley had been reported as being scrapped when inquiries were made by letter or telephone. I had to physically locate them and work my way up the chain of command, negotiate with the railroad's manager for the sale, then revise the contracts with the girls in the office, and pay for them in cash without getting robbed or killed. The only way I got them into the states was to describe them as "railroad water cars" on the bill of sale, customs declarations, and shipping manifest. All of this required me to cultivate friendships with everybody I dealt with at the railroad, as well as the stevedores who loaded them on a tramp steamer for us.

That was thirty years ago, and I seriously doubt that it's gotten easier since then.

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Sammy King


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 Post subject: Re: YV 2-6-0 displayed in Vera Cruz Mexico
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 5:34 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:40 pm
Posts: 5
waynecohen wrote:
Does YV 29 still exist? Last I read several year’s ago (I forget where, but probably on Jack Burgess’ YV website), it was no longer on display at the Vera Cruz RR station and was presumed scrapped.


According to the August, 2023 view in Google Earth Pro, it is still on display there.


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 Post subject: Re: YV 2-6-0 displayed in Vera Cruz Mexico
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 5:36 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:18 am
Posts: 439
Location: San Francisco / Santa Monica
The locomotive was there 15 months ago. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ferrosur/@19.2039882,-96.1395391,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipMAAWjTMxlyMxjbrm5vuOmjYHVoGjOj90osE8Iw!2e10!3e12!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipMAAWjTMxlyMxjbrm5vuOmjYHVoGjOj90osE8Iw%3Dw203-h152-k-no!7i4608!8i3456!4m10!1m2!2m1!1sVera+Cruz+railroad+station+mexico!3m6!1s0x85c346bd7f1e6249:0x6751de7eae20639f!8m2!3d19.2040756!4d-96.1395999!10e5!16s%2Fg%2F11bvt5tdv7?entry=ttu

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 Post subject: Re: YV 2-6-0 displayed in Vera Cruz Mexico
PostPosted: Tue Feb 20, 2024 9:29 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 11:38 pm
Posts: 5
Randolph R. Ruiz wrote:


That’s great, thank you. Though her chances for repatriation are slim, they’re better than if she had been scrapped.

To quote “Dumb and Dumber:” “So you’re telling me there’s a chance.”


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