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 Post subject: Promontory 1869 Ceremonial Spike Up For Auction
PostPosted: Fri Jan 06, 2023 11:55 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11497
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
No, really.

https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-64 ... tid=Zxz2cZ

This has the potential to set a record for THE most expensive railroadiana collectible of all time.

Now, if only someone could claim/buy it for a Utah or Arizona museum................


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 Post subject: Re: Promontory 1869 Ceremonial Spike Up For Auction
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 2:21 am 
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Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Now, if only someone could claim/buy it for a Utah or Arizona museum................
The sad part is, it was already given to a museum.
This is one of many reasons I doubt I'll ever donate anything of mine to a museum.

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 Post subject: Re: Promontory 1869 Ceremonial Spike Up For Auction
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 3:01 am 
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Location: Alberta, Canada
p51 wrote:
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Now, if only someone could claim/buy it for a Utah or Arizona museum................
The sad part is, it was already given to a museum.
This is one of many reasons I doubt I'll ever donate anything of mine to a museum.

The Museum of the City of New York, whose current mission statement reads:

"The Museum of the City of New York fosters understanding of the distinctive nature of urban life in the world’s most influential metropolis. It engages visitors by celebrating, documenting, and interpreting the city’s past, present, and future."

https://www.mcny.org/sites/default/file ... cy2020.pdf

I can see how a railroad spike from Arizona or Utah, however unique and ornate, could be considered to not fit their current collection, thus leading to its deaccessioning and sale. With the proceeds of course going toward things that are more New York oriented.

Hopefully your children and/or other heirs are just as passionate about your stuff and your future plans for it, whatever they may be. If they aren't it might end up on the auction block anyway, or perhaps in the local landfill if they don't understand and appreciate its value.

No offense meant, just playing Devil's Advocate here.

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 Post subject: Re: Promontory 1869 Ceremonial Spike Up For Auction
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:35 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
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Where were the Union Pacific offices located?

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 Post subject: Re: Promontory 1869 Ceremonial Spike Up For Auction
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:17 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11497
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Anyone who actually cares about the provenance and history of this artifact would do well to read the essay assembled by Christie's staff (who earn their fat incomes by getting/goading passionate people to pay huge sums for antiques and artwork, after all).

According to their account, the spike has always been a family heirloom, and never belonged to either the UP or Central/Southern Pacific.

Quote:
The fate of the Arizona Spike remained a mystery among most scholars for the duration of the nineteenth century and much of the twentieth. The first writer to speculate on the whereabouts of the Arizona Spike was J. N. Bowman who surmised the spike returned with its presenter and then on to Arizona where it was lost. In 1969, F. A. Ketterson, Jr., in his assessment for historically reconstructing the Promontory site for the National Park Service, first put forward the theory that the Arizona Spike was presented to Dillon based on correspondence with Sidney Dillon's great-grandson, S. Dillon Ripley, who at the time was secretary of the Smithsonian Institution. Ripley recalled the family tradition that the Arizona Spike had been presented to Sidney Dillon who held it to his death, but the time of writing, Ripley had been unaware of its location. Unbeknownst to Ripley, the spike had remained in the family, but not through his line of descent of his grandmother Julia Elizabeth Dillon Ripley (1844-1945) but that of his great aunt Cora Almira Dillon Wyckoff (1849-1925). Cora's daughter Florence Dillon Wykoff Whitney presented it as a gift to the Museum of the City of New York in 1943. Little fanfare must have surrounded this acquisition and it was not until 1978, when it was loaned to the Smithsonian and the Associated Press published a story on the spike.


For all functional purposes, this is a piece of crafted jewelry/metal artwork with a history, not a historical artifact of the Transcontinental Railroad. The same could be said of a great deal of the other stuff being offered in the auction, or most things in such a high-end auction. Think of horse racing or sailing trophies, or Faberge eggs.

In 1943, some society matron with four names and without necessarily any historical or archival training might have done well just to even think of the Museum of the City of New York as a prospective "worthy" home. Back then, many if not most such "city" museums were all-encompassing collections of far more random assemblages of things presumed "historical" on a worldwide basis than the more carefully curated museums of today. Even the Smithsonian Institution back then more closely resembled its moniker of "the nation's attic," with no subdivided Air & Space Museum, art galleries, etc. I am neither surprised such an artifact ended up there, nor surprised they're deaccessioning it.

Another perspective: In 1943, the Southern Pacific had just ripped up the rails to and at the actual ceremony site at Promontory the previous year, most of which was relaid at various military facilities during the war build-up, including a Navy facility at Hawthorne, Nevada........ and the actual location remained a desolate wasteland no tourists with a brain ever went to, until about 25 years later....

The worthy question could be, should the Museum have just transferred this Arizona spike to the likes of the Golden Spike National Monument, the Arizona State Museum in Tucson, or the Arizona State RR Museum in Chandler? I can present arguments for and against every one of these sites. But further, a museum has a fiduciary responsibility to its mission as well. Imagine if someone left an artwork worth six figures to your local rail museum, for whatever reason--it hung in some rail baron's mansion, or whatever. Wouldn't you sell it and put the money towards the restoration of that locomotive, station, or caboose instead, or your endowment?

By the way, while typing this, I got an e-mail from someone in a position to know and care that said simply, "That provenance sucks."

And if you don't like this, then go check on who still owns the actual original Golden Spike of Promontory fame today........ you won't like that, either.


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 Post subject: Re: Promontory 1869 Ceremonial Spike Up For Auction
PostPosted: Sat Jan 07, 2023 9:34 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11497
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
p51 wrote:
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Now, if only someone could claim/buy it for a Utah or Arizona museum................
The sad part is, it was already given to a museum.
This is one of many reasons I doubt I'll ever donate anything of mine to a museum.


What's your next choice?

Sell it to some random person on eBay?

Have it buried with you?

Have your heirs burn/scrap it after your passing, or sell it to some OTHER random person?

Burn your house down with you and all your stuff in it?


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 Post subject: Re: Promontory 1869 Ceremonial Spike Up For Auction
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 2:10 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11497
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Another issue has arisen.


The Cantor Arts Center at Stanford University in California, which has long owned the actual Golden Spike and related artifacts, also has in its collection what appears to be the Nevada silver spike from Promontory 1869:

http://cantorcollection.stanford.edu/ob ... t=0&page=6

As well as what purports to be an engraved "Arizona Iron Spike embellished with silver and gold, but upon careful examination is absolutely NOT from Promontory 1869:

http://cantorcollection.stanford.edu/ob ... t=0&page=9


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 Post subject: Re: Promontory 1869 Ceremonial Spike Up For Auction
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 10:46 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:50 pm
Posts: 217
Location: www.easttroyrr.org
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
p51 wrote:
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Now, if only someone could claim/buy it for a Utah or Arizona museum................
The sad part is, it was already given to a museum.
This is one of many reasons I doubt I'll ever donate anything of mine to a museum.


What's your next choice?

Sell it to some random person on eBay?

Have it buried with you?

Have your heirs burn/scrap it after your passing, or sell it to some OTHER random person?

Burn your house down with you and all your stuff in it?


I like this list. Very realistic and definitely something that usually happens.

What I've been doing over the years is donating all my books and ephemera to a local transit museum. It's always been with the understanding that they can sell anything I donate to raise money to keep their operation going. Why should I attempt to control what happens to stuff I no longer have?


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 Post subject: Re: Promontory 1869 Ceremonial Spike Up For Auction
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 11:29 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 3:27 pm
Posts: 60
I agree which is why I donated the only, known to exist, Sandy River Rail Road hat badge to the Phillips Maine Historical Society!

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 Post subject: Re: Promontory 1869 Ceremonial Spike Up For Auction
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 11:33 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:38 am
Posts: 1001
Location: Philadelphia
p51 wrote:
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Now, if only someone could claim/buy it for a Utah or Arizona museum................
The sad part is, it was already given to a museum.
This is one of many reasons I doubt I'll ever donate anything of mine to a museum.


Its a perfectly healthy process for a museum to re-evaluate their collection, and hopefully at least on a semi-regular basis regardless of space/budget/etc. What if a better piece is offered than one donated years ago? What if the mission changes? Etc etc.

The disposition of secondary materials is a whole separate topic... As a collector and museum/archive professional I sometimes struggle over the merits of transfer, sell, donate, auction, etc.

Joshua


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 Post subject: Re: Promontory 1869 Ceremonial Spike Up For Auction
PostPosted: Mon Jan 09, 2023 12:58 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11497
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Joshua K. Blay wrote:
Its a perfectly healthy process for a museum to re-evaluate their collection, and hopefully at least on a semi-regular basis regardless of space/budget/etc. What if a better piece is offered than one donated years ago? What if the mission changes? Etc etc.


Often more applicable:
What if a more appropriate and applicable archive appeared or opened up in the meantime?

There are lots of old railroad books, company records, and photo collections that were dumped upon city libraries, state historical societies/museums, or city museums years ago because it was felt they were the only "safe" or "worthy" place for these things to be preserved. And now, a half-century or more later, you may have the Railroad Museum of [state name], the regional trolley museum, the Center for Railroad Photography and Art, county historical societies, and more.

Of course, none of these are "guarantees" either. One time, about 20 years ago, I transferred a cartload of surplus books from the Maryland Rail Heritage Library to the National NRHS Library in Philadelphia--traveling by Amtrak, of course, and the wheeled case was my carry-on. That collection, which of course was pretty darned Northeast-centric, was later moved about and finally transferred to the DeGolyer Library at SMU in Texas--not exactly a place anyone would think to look--and considerable surplus sold off.


Last edited by Alexander D. Mitchell IV on Sun Jan 22, 2023 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Promontory 1869 Ceremonial Spike Up For Auction
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:26 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:07 pm
Posts: 179
Location: Utah
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
For all functional purposes, this is a piece of crafted jewelry/metal artwork with a history, not a historical artifact of the Transcontinental Railroad. The same could be said of a great deal of the other stuff being offered in the auction, or most things in such a high-end auction. Think of horse racing or sailing trophies, or Faberge eggs.


I do not understand this logic at all. This spike was presented publicly at the ceremony at Promontory Summit on May 10th 1869 alongside the more famous gold spike currently owned by Stanford; it was there in the moment of action, spoken of and recorded. How is it not a historical artifact of the Transcontinental Railroad?

Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Another issue has arisen.


The Cantor Arts Center at Stanford University in California, which has long owned the actual Golden Spike and related artifacts, also has in its collection what appears to be the Nevada silver spike from Promontory 1869:

http://cantorcollection.stanford.edu/ob ... t=0&page=6

As well as what purports to be an engraved "Arizona Iron Spike embellished with silver and gold, but upon careful examination is absolutely NOT from Promontory 1869:

http://cantorcollection.stanford.edu/ob ... t=0&page=9


What issue has arisen? The Nevada silver spike has always been known to exist because it too was publicly presented at the May 10th ceremony and numerous eyewitnesses recorded it. The Nevada silver spike, the Arizona gold/silver/iron spike in question, and the California gold spike were all exhibited together during the 2019 150th anniversary celebrations, which I saw with my own eyes. I don't see how this affects the auction of the Arizona spike at all.

The purported "Arizona Iron Spike - Artist Unknown" in the second link, if one actually looks at the images, was merely mislabeled by some intern no doubt, because the engraving makes it clear that it was related to the construction of the Hoover Dam in Boulder Nevada.

I personally take no issue with the Museum of New York deaccessioning the item. I only hope that it does not end up in some billionaire's private art collection and is acquired by or donated to an institution that will display it.


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 Post subject: Re: Promontory 1869 Ceremonial Spike Up For Auction
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 6:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11497
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Utah Josh wrote:
I do not understand this logic at all. This spike was presented publicly at the ceremony at Promontory Summit on May 10th 1869 alongside the more famous gold spike currently owned by Stanford; it was there in the moment of action, spoken of and recorded. How is it not a historical artifact of the Transcontinental Railroad?


There exists a distinct difference between ceremonial items and "working" items. Museums and display cases across the world are chock full of ceremonial items, from the gold-paint-sprayed shovel that broke ground for the building it sits in, to the "first dollar" at so many bars and restaurants, to the Masonic trowel and other Masonic items in the Washington Masonic Memorial in Alexandria, Va. Or another way to think of it, think of "mint" coin/stamp sets made for collectors, versus stamps and coins actually still found circulating "in the wild." (I have seen collectors of antiques that adamantly refuse to take the "easy" way out and shop online, insisting on finding stuff in flea markets and yard sales.)

In railroading, we have the "First Stone" of the Baltimore & Ohio enshrined in the B&O Railroad Museum ion Baltimore along with a few other artifacts from that ceremonial occasion. And there are a few other "Last Spikes" enshrined elsewhere in Canada, New Zealand, and elsewhere in the world. (And there's a Last Spike Brewery in Calgary, but I digress.....)

Ceremonial items such as these are usually designed to be future "eye candy," and they tend to be what "average Joe" and "tourist" visitors clamor at, much like the Mona Lisa at the Louvre, the "Wizard of Oz" ruby slippers at the Smithsonian, Mallard at the National Railway Museum-York, etc. But there's a humbler appreciation (or should be) for the NASA space capsules and suits that actually went into orbit or to the moon, the "average" steam locomotive in Railroad Hall (green or not), the "average Joe" Ford Model T's and Escorts, and the Pony Express mail pouch that actually was carried for the year and a half the Pony Express ran.


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 Post subject: Re: Promontory 1869 Ceremonial Spike Up For Auction
PostPosted: Sun Jan 22, 2023 12:56 am 

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I find this discussion entertaining, only for the fact that when discussing railroad spikes plated in precious metal it would seem that common sense collections management is portrayed as a good thing.

Rationalize your equipment collection by scrapping one long-deaccessioned wrecking derrick that nobody else wanted, on the other hand...


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 Post subject: Re: Promontory 1869 Ceremonial Spike Up For Auction
PostPosted: Mon Jan 23, 2023 7:38 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2882
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
There exists a distinct difference between ceremonial items and "working" items. Museums and display cases across the world are chock full of ceremonial items, from the gold-paint-sprayed shovel that broke ground for the building it sits in, to the "first dollar" at so many bars and restaurants, to the Masonic trowel and other Masonic items in the Washington Masonic Memorial in Alexandria, Va.


I think you've overlooked the fact that the event this spike and the others were connected to was a ceremony. The completion of the "First Transcontinental Railroad". If you ask a non-railroad enthusiast about the completion, what's the first thing they're likely to say? "They drove a golden spike!"

This is not a one of 10,000 "limited edition" created by Franklin Myth (Mint). It's a singular object that was there on the day of a singularly historic event.

What would you say about the flag planted on the moon when they landed? Purely ceremonial. Does that mean it holds no great value?

I would venture to say there is a difference between ceremonial objects used during a historic event and "collector items" created for the event. Since the driving of these ceremonial spikes is a key component of the event, they are historic in and of their own. We'll see where the bidding goes, and that will give some indication of what the museums and collectors think about them.


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