For a number of years, one of my duties was managing the faculties of a US Government data center and related offices. While it took up a smaller percentage of my time, it was a constant source of small and large issues, to include closing a major road for several hours, hiring a helicopter to lift an air cooler onto the roof, hiring a company to x-ray floors to install new pipes (which required closing the building), ultra sounding large pipes to determine if they needed to be replaced (they did), testing the generator, testing the electrical failover gear, testing the fuel in the generator tank, cleaning the tank, dealing with the local building and fire inspectors, etc, etc, etc.

We had a plan. We stayed in contact with suppliers about lead times for large components that were old enough they were subject to failure. We had a budget for all this stuff. It wasn't rocket science. We followed all the required federal procurement rules. All of them. Some procurements took a year. We were audited by two different parties at times.

While not a hundred years old, the facility pushing 45 and hadn't been designed for what we were using it for.

It would be interesting to hear the excuse for this. Hopefully, someone isn't going to get a good annual review.

Bob

Kelly, you have a good memory. There were two trips in February, 1968. They had a CNJ diesel (FM TrainMaster) from PRR Newark to Cranford, then steam to Ashley PA. George Hart's CPR G-5's were to pull the trip but were pressed into steam heat service instead. SRC 90 was one of the substitute engines.

RDG 2108 and 2109 supplied steam to a power plant in Portland PA on the DL&W in 1958; 2102 supplied steam to Carpenter Steel in Reading in 1960. The RDG engines had manifolds between the airpumps to get 240 lbs BP down to whatever the customer needed.

The 2108-2109 trip to Portland was publicized and the number of people who watched them go by was one of the factors that led RDG to begin the Iron Horse Rambles the following year.

Phil Mulligan

In the early 1980s, New Hope & Ivyland RR's former U.S Army 0-6-0 No. 9 supplied steam for U.S. Steel's Fairless Works locker and wash rooms.

There's just a whole lot of structural problems that are introduced by government-entity management. It doesn't mean people are stupid or evil, just the rules structure that they have to follow - particularly for budgets and procurement - runs in the face of responsive business and customer management rules.

Last time I was down there was a long time ago, but witnessing firsthand the problems on rebuilding 1361 sticks on me still. I've worked with NPS on four different locations now, each one with their own issues, so I speak from some experience. Each location is hamstrung in different ways where they just can't exhibit the same kind of decision making that a business-oriented structure would make. You trade a lot for what is perceived as the ultimate deep pocket of funding - that really isn't.

The basic rule is that revenue usually goes to general fund and the expense budget is tightly controlled and never the two shall meet. I worked with one rail agency where they were even on two separate calendars six months apart so there was just no net income to expense reconciliation possible. That one, thank God, is privatized now. The other thing you'll see everywhere from the military on down is over-requesting budget assuming it won't actually be authorized, and if it is, spending unnecessarily to make sure you use it all up. But adding to budget to address either opportunity or crisis is a whole different problem because it often is slow and subject to unnecessary restriction.

My first job out of college was with HUD, of all places. Good training, for sure, on understanding just how federal government budgeting works, and desensitizing your reflexes to actually tolerate it.

Randy says it well. Important to remember that Steamtown was " given " to the NPS by Cong. McDade as it was his way of making sure it had a long term future as a good paying jobs creator for a community within his district really needing economic help.

It worked and has for going on 30 years provided dozens of high paying ( by Scranton standards) jobs.

The NPS never wanted to go into the historic steam railroad museum business and has since inception viewed Steamtown as its redheaded step child. If it could come up with a way that would allow it to hand the operation over to another entity my guess is that it would jump all over that??

Who know, having to close larger portions of the place on account of a broken steam heating system might be followed by the electrical supply system be found needing a 21st. century upgrade to be safe thus requiring closing the balance of the place???

Let's hope not as inefficient as it obviously is,... it still does tell the important story of the steam locomotives huge contribution to the growth of the nation and for that it's worth keeping alive.

Happy Thanksgiving. Ross Rowland

Ross, a couple minor quibbles:

there was a point in the history the now long defunct Steamtown Volunteer Association where we sent a letter to McDade offering him "honorary membership" and he happily accepted. I don't think (federal) jobs was his primary purpose. I think he really did have an interest and appreciation for the place, and in the late 80's it was popular to think NEPA could be saved by conspicuous government development. The Red Barons Baseball Team, National Westminster Bank and Prudential (PAMCO, and about ten other aliases) all came to Scranton. All gone now. Later, Corning Glass was enticed to come into the area; only to abandon the product line while the facility was still being constructed. Some new employees received termination notices shortly after appointment letters. Don't get me wrong, he was definitely "bringing home the bacon" but it was more a matter of having a tourist attraction that would buttress the local economy. Is that a proper use of federal expenditures? Probably not in the ideal world. Other more obviously political rail-related use of public moneys was former Governor Rendell using state redevelopment moneys to bring Hyundai Rotem to the greater Philadelphia area-it might have made life better for SEPTA, but it didn't help Coudersport and the infamous movie credit being used for the abomination known as Unstoppable. I think a lot of us were defensive about criticism because of things like that, and the late Sam Donaldson's (who generally never met government spending he didn't like) going all Milton Friedman on Steamtown.

While you are somewhat right about the NPS not wanting Steamtown, instead of dragging out proxies to complain about the collection; they should have admitted up front that they lacked what the late Michael Porter (using that adjective so much I find a little jarring) called "distinctive competence".

Consider a hypothetical vacancy for a maintenance manager at say, Gettysburg. There are how many other parks and sites devoted to that conflict? Dozens? And in each case the drill is the same. There's an established boundary, a visitor center, a collection of artififacts on display but not in use with common construction, antebellum structures and some statuary and signage. No doubt there's some supervisor at another park who is experienced on bother historic objects and custodial issues.

Now open a job at Steamtown. Operating locomotives, coaches, rolling stock, archaic brake valves, 49CFR...rare skills and not likely to be found anywhere in the Park Service. Safety protocols not in use in any other other NPS facility.

Happy Thanksgiving.

An article on the Times-Tribune website says that a temporary heat source is operational and the trolley museum will reopen this Friday. Regarding the heat in the rest of the park:

“A larger project to replace the heating system at Steamtown’s campus will likely take years, Warren said. The historic site is open, but several buildings on the campus remain closed for lack of heat.”

Supe you may well be correct. Your long term involvement with the place certainly gives you a far greater understanding than I have.

i did meet with the first Superintendent ( Latcher (sp.) ) to lobby him hard to install a 100 ft. turntable vs. the 85 ft. version has was proposing so that 4-8-4's could visit Steamtown and have a way to get turned. The Wye there had a very sharp ( 19 degrees ? ) curve in it far to sharp for a 4-8-4. He wouldn't hear of it because " we have discovered the old outer walls of the old turntable pit near the roundhouse and that's the size we will replicate".

They then sent him to Gettysburg where I understand he got in trouble for whatever and by now he's probably enjoying his pension somewhere.

The latest news about the Steamtown steam plant needing " years" to repair is certainly not encouraging.

Happy Thanksgiving. Ross Rowland

They had failed as a live steam experience. And now they have failed as a 'climate controlled exhibit,' apparently for the next several years if their spokesperson is to be believed. I guess when you're on the bottom rung of the ladder, you can only go up.

Memorial services for the Restoration of B&M 3713 will be held in the roundhouse on Saturday, November 26th. Friends and angry taxpayers may call from 11 am until 2 pm. Warm clothing encouraged.

(attn - obvious parody)

Scranton, PA –Steamtown National Historic Site (NHS) invites the public to participate in the new “Abandoned Roundhouse Experience” and enjoy some holiday cheer on Saturday, November 19, 2022 from 5:00pm – 7:00pm. This free family event will take place at Steamtown NHS, located at 350 Cliff Street in Scranton.

The holiday season is just around the corner! Interact with Scranton’s homeless population and enjoy s’mores over burn barrels against a backdrop of oxidized locomotives. Visitors will also have photo opportunities with the former Nay Aug Park Miniature Train to capture new memories or relive those from long ago! *Miniature train exhibit closed due to issues with our heating system.

The health of our visitors, employees, and partners continues to be paramount. The CDC has offered guidance to help prevent the spread of COVID-19. We will continue to use our entire annual 5M budget allotment to ensure that visitors obey draconian CDC guidance and adhere to a strict 10mph speed limit within the park. For the mental health of our volunteers, we encourage you to volunteer someplace else.

Located in downtown Scranton, Pennsylvania, Steamtown NHS is open (unheated) daily from 10:00am to 4:00pm. Fingerless gloves and threadbare pea coats encouraged. From Interstate-81 follow exit 185 (Central Scranton Expressway); then follow the brown and white signs to the park entrance at Lackawanna Avenue and Pork Barrel Place (GPS: N 41.41, W 75.67). General park information is available by phoning 1-800-4NO-HEAT, or by visiting the park website anytime.

Not everybody ran in circles saying woe is me.

From ECTMA's site:

November 23, 2022 Notice: The Lackawanna County Electric City Trolley Museum will reopen Friday November 25, 2022. Heat is back on and a new heating system has been installed just in time for this weekend's jam-packed series of holiday activities, excursion runs, special events, and visits from several of everyone's Christmas friends. For further information, excursion times, reservations, and costs, contact the Museum at 570 963-6590.

http://www.ectma.org/

Phil Mulligan

They really get a 5 million a year budget?

Give me that and I would give you a world class RR experience, from scratch.

It amazes me the disparity of operating budgets of one place to the next...and the budget doesn't always translate into the quality of the experience.....

Considering the above, why not put the backshop and excursions under operational control of Amtrak?

Some years ago, some Amtrak engineers were guests of Steamtown, and had a chance to tour one of the road engines. They looked at the engine and its 26 brake and said "you take this down that hill with that? I imagine it was shocking when you are used to a modern machine with all the electronic indicators and without the caucaphonous sensory overload that is a steam locomotive. At the least the 26 is pressure maintaining.

In all seriousness, if the NPS issued a request for proposal for a shop manager or excursion operator, I rather doubt Amtrak would be a respondent.

The turntable story was interesting. It demonstrates a fundamental tension in the NPS, that they want to preserve something in its original/last used condition. That is their mission and it doesn't affect unused assets-nobody is going to start firing a civil war cannon. However Steamtown was designed at least in theory to an "operating museum" and when it needs to be substantially modified to benefit modern use, it's a no fly zone.

As an aside, The Lackawanna's Poconos were as I understand, the second most powerful 4-8-4's built with something like 72,000 pounds of TE, vs. the N&W J's 80,000. The story is that turntable dictated the those stubby little tenders they had. Ditto for the Mountains. It's always been odd to me that of all the coal roads, other than the D&H, Erie and Reading Co. , they eschewed articulateds. At the end of steam the Lehigh Valley was considering a duplex; something no doubt stopped dead in its tracks by Cecil Major.

I only met Lastschar once; at the tenth anniversary of the grand opening. I got the feeling, from discussing the demolition of the observation tower at Gettysburg that he was interested in historic integrity, damn the reaction, he actually might have enjoyed ruffling a few feathers about it.

Gettysburg is a high profile, sought after assignment. Wild Guess, he got it for getting Steamtrown going and navigating the intense political opposition re: the late Rep. Bruce Vento's anger at McDade's maneuvering around "his" Interior Committee. Several years ago, I had to occasion to meet a former PA Congressman. My "hobby" came up, and he said "Joe McDade's baby". Our representatives apparently have long memories and deep obsessions.

His "whatever" was discovered as an incidental finding in connection with an unrelated accusation, that was found to be without merit.

He ended up as the President of the Gettysburg Foundation:

Gettysburg is a primo assignment. He did get in trouble for "whatever", which was an "incidental finding" after a primary complaint was dismissed. He then became part of the Gettysburg Foundation in 2008

https://cwmemory.com/2009/10/20/john-la ... ion-award/

https://www.gettysburgdaily.com/dr-john ... president/

I'm guessing he's retired now. He's must be in his 70's by now.

Happy Thanksgiving. Let the gluttony begin.

I think if Bob has a slide show again that we both attend, I'll say hello.