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 Post subject: Preserved wood boxcar with unusual ends in Michigan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 5:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 6323
Recently ran across a photo on the internet which shows a single sheathed wood boxcar that had been made into a railroad company service (or camp) car sitting at a place called Heritage Park in Taylor, Michigan. Although a small entry door had been installed in at least one of the ends, the "non-standard" type ends could still be seen. I wonder about the name of these ends and whether any other preserved cars have them. Also, there is no info as to the heritage of the car and since the car was obviously moved onto the site for preservation, perhaps someone might have the cars history. Thanks for any help!

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Preserved wood boxcar with unusual ends in Michigan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1171
Location: Byers, Colorado
Can you post the photo, Les, if you would, please ??

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 Post subject: Re: Preserved wood boxcar with unusual ends in Michigan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 6323
Sammy -

Wish I could. WAY too many characters for me to get it all correct! I'm hoping someone in the southeastern Michigan area might have a photo and could post it here to RyPN. Otherwise, may have to wait until the next time I am out that way.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Preserved wood boxcar with unusual ends in Michigan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 7:51 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:19 am
Posts: 680
Location: Scottsboro, AL
Here is a photo link:

https://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image.aspx?f=1&guid=95b67f18-f193-4eed-bf12-7ca9b2da101d&gid=3

- Alan Maples


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 Post subject: Re: Preserved wood boxcar with unusual ends in Michigan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 8:37 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 6323
Alan -

Thanks. That is the exact photo I saw! Your typing is obviously much better than what I could do! This photo shows the car end I was talking about. Perhaps now, someone can tell us the heritage of the car.

BTW, there is also a wood cupola caboose at Heritage Park. Along with a replication of a small town depot that had been located a bit north of Taylor.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Preserved wood boxcar with unusual ends in Michigan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:11 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 580
Location: Pure Michigan
Les Beckman wrote:
Alan -

Thanks. That is the exact photo I saw! Your typing is obviously much better than what I could do! This photo shows the car end I was talking about. Perhaps now, someone can tell us the heritage of the car.

BTW, there is also a wood cupola caboose at Heritage Park. Along with a replication of a small town depot that had been located a bit north of Taylor.

Les


The boxcar was built as a Pere Marquette 88000-series boxcar, later converted to a bunk car by the Chesapeake & Ohio. This car was donated to the city of Taylor in the mid-1980s through the effort of the efforts of then Michigan Congressman John Dingell. It was later used by several businesses at the Heritage Park, from a pet store to a kite shop.

UPDATE: In my notes I have the boxcar down as PM 89700, but I cannot remember the source of this so it could be incorrect.

The caboose is GTW 77000-series wood caboose The number of the caboose remains unknown. After it was retired by the GTW, it supposedly became a poolhouse at a private residence and was donated to the city of Taylor around the same time as the boxcar.

2016 photos (I need to get some updated shots in the future, hard to believe these are six years old!):
Image

Image


Last edited by NS 3322 on Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Preserved wood boxcar with unusual ends in Michigan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:24 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 6323
NS 3322 -

Thanks for the photos and the info on the boxcar, and also on the GTW caboose. From your photo, and the one submitted by Alan, both ends have had doors cut through the original car ends. Still would like to know what those "unusual" ends are called, and if there are any other existing preserved cars with those ends.

Good to hear that there are efforts underway to restore the boxcar (and the caboose). Wonder if they have the C&O bunk car road number?

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Preserved wood boxcar with unusual ends in Michigan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 9:33 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 580
Location: Pure Michigan
Les Beckman wrote:
Good to hear that there are efforts underway to restore the boxcar (and the caboose). Wonder if they have the C&O bunk car road number?


Impossible to tell right now until the current interior is gutted and removed. The faux ceiling and the 1970’s faux wood paneling are covering up most of the original interior.

Here are two more better shots of the ends:
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=5715474
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=5715477


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 Post subject: Re: Preserved wood boxcar with unusual ends in Michigan
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2022 10:16 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2779
Location: Northern Illinois
Hutchins ends, marketed in the WWI era by the Hutchins Car Roofing Co. They went off the market when they, and several other designs, were found to infringe on the Murphy patent owned by the Standard Railway Equipment Co. that claimed tapered pressed stiffeners. Ann Arbor had a series of cars with these ends also.

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 Post subject: Re: Preserved wood boxcar with unusual ends in Michigan
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 1:40 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:54 am
Posts: 972
Location: Califoothills / Midwest Prairies / PNW
I hope one day an example of the Van Dorn target end will show up on a body in a field. To my knowledge none are known in preservation, though information about them and other items by Van Dorn are preserved at IRM.
From this blog post: https://hickscarworks.blogspot.com/2020/10/the-van-dorn-target-end.html
Image

And Les, to get these links transferred correctly, I do not type them out. Just highlight, Control C to copy and Control V to paste. Some skills from Wordstar circa 1981 are still useful.


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 Post subject: Re: Preserved wood boxcar with unusual ends in Michigan
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:17 am 

Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:29 am
Posts: 157
@Les

There is one more of these boxcar. PM88958 made 1927 by Pressed Steel at the
B&O RR Museum in Baltimore.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPict ... ?id=310455


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 Post subject: Re: Preserved wood boxcar with unusual ends in Michigan
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 9:31 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 1171
Location: Byers, Colorado
It's been a good 23 years plus since I met the boxcar ladies of Cleveland, Mississippi. They asked for my help when they visited Texas State RR and I happened to be the easiest ranger to talk to. A few days after their visit, I used my rest days to go visit them, and they showed me a 50' wooden IC boxcar in a field, which had these target style pressed steel ends. It had been in a derailment, which caused a lot of damage to the steel "fishbelly" underframe, but the body was still in good shape, so IC sold it for reuse as a hay barn.

These ladies remembered playing in it when they were little, and they wanted to preserve it. I told them that if it weren't for those ends, they would be better off sticking a match to it and roasting some marshmellows on a night when the moon is full. Their husbands were pretty handy fellas, and I made some suggestions on how to move it and patch up the underframe, and where to get some trucks. They had a little craft store in town, and by now I hope they have fixed it up and put it on display there.

Les and I searched for it about seven years ago (when I was buying Audrey), but never turned anything up. Maybe one of the savants on this forum can find it ??

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 Post subject: Re: Preserved wood boxcar with unusual ends in Michigan
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 11:26 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:50 pm
Posts: 202
Location: www.easttroyrr.org
For those on Facebook there are a number of pictures just posted of this car and the amount of work that it needs.
https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=101 ... 7684208655


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 Post subject: Re: Preserved wood boxcar with unusual ends in Michigan
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 12:27 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 6323
Appreciate all of the help with my original query about this car. This is just one terrific example of what makes the Railway Preservation News such a great website.

Now:

NS 3322 - Thanks for the photos of the two ends of the car.

Dennis Storzek - Appreciate the info on Hutchins ends.

linkthebutler - Appreciate the info that sister car Pere Marquette 88958 has been preserved and on display at the B&O Museum in Baltimore.

Trolleyguy - Thanks for the link to the Facebook thread on the car.

It's my understanding that the planned restoration is to include closing in the windows on one side of the car so that it will appear to be an "in service" Pere Marquette boxcar while leaving the windows on the other side to reflect its conversion into a bunk car. Not sure where I read this, so if this is not the planned restoration, a correction is invited.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Preserved wood boxcar with unusual ends in Michigan
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2022 2:14 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2779
Location: Northern Illinois
You guys do realize it's not a boxcar, but a door and a half automobile car, don't you?

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