Random question- I know years ago this forum was run by a now defunct non-profit organization. Who owns and has been responsible for this site since then?

I have to agree with you. I like using Facebook for social stuff, but as a technical resource it's almost useless, as they make it almost impossible to find anything besides the newest postings. That said, one railroad related thing that I find useful on FB, is that the crews of some of the shortline railroads that I follow, often post and give information about things going on, which is pretty cool. I also like seeing notifications for events, which are almost always posted to FB and tough to find elsewhere.

I guess that I'm an old person now, as even though I'm addicted to my smartphone, I prefer using a real computer and keyboard, to access the internet, and I prefer exchanging technical information on forums. Typing on a smartphone sucks!

Supposedly you can set Facebook to do that, or at least one USED to be able to do so. It now may take aftermarket programs like "Fluff-Busting Purity" (formerly "Facebook Purity") to do it, but it can be done.

The fact that you are unaware of this is more of a legitimate complaint.

Some of what I'm reading here reminds me VERY much of the folks who resisted change so much, they stopped taking railroad photos or subscribing to magazines when the last steamers were retired. Or the guy who ripped the first "all-diesel" issue of Trains Magazine in half and sent it back "return to sender."

I will readily concede to both the inconvenience and the inevitability of change. If we didn't have change, we'd still be reading this stuff (OR NOT) with green, blinking letters on crappy, low-res monochrome monitors. (I had a workplace that refused to upgrade to Win 95 and up for their internal system in the late 1990s. They went bankrupt a while after I left.) We can see pictures that don't take a half-hour to download from a floppy disc now because of change.

The change in question not only affects how we as preservationists, historians, and marketers interact, but more importantly how our audience interacts with us--finds out about us, rides, sees, gets more information, etc. We ignore it at our peril. And the avocation owes its survival to those who can push aside those resistant to change and progress with the times.

I’m all for change or progress for making things easier and better. But, Facebook, et al. are not the right tools for technical discussions in an easily searchable format. I tend to think that a lot of the migration away from the older bulletin board style of social media has to do with the content, how it’s presented and why no one cares when it gets buried over time. It’s living in the moment. Pictures of your kids or what you’re having for dinner right now is much more suitable for those other formats. However, technical discussions lend themselves to this type of bulletin board format as a kind of technical archive. Some or most of the best technical info that you can find online is still in bulletin boards. I can’t think of another format that works quite as well in that vein. Maybe we should invent one and pocket some change.

If those forums are dying it's because they failed to be relevant, but not in the way that those writers are offering. Everything they said is true, but not as important as the change in the internet.

Back when your PC had a Pentium 2 running at 233MMhz, all you could do was read.

Today, you get a lot more information by listening to audio, watching video and having interactivity.

If the railroads conquered distance, the internet obliterated it.

What's to stop somebody on here who has deep technical knowledge about say airbrakes to use this as a precursor to a deeper exchange; such as having a Zoom/Teams/other e-conferencing application meeting?

If forums are dying, it's because they were the first step in ubiquitous connectedness.

As a CPA, I used to be required to attend 80 hours of continuing professional education. It meant a day or half away from work, travel to a hotel or other venue, and usually a catered lunch. While I miss the usual catered lunch and peer discussions, I don't miss the drive, the check in, the expense (I rarely pay any more) and the loss of time-I can run two computers and multitask.

These guys understand:

https://railphoto-art.org

The thing that Facebook has that’s way ahead of most web forums is the specificity of various groups. I’m an interurban and streetcar fan, and while there is a decent sprinkling of such topics on RYPN, I can go to Facey and find groups focusing on traction in general, and the more popular systems in particular. It’s photo-centred, and the downside is that technical discussion is sometimes lost in the flood of comments, but if I want an ongoing flow of photos and information about, say, the North Shore Line, Chicago Surface Lines, the Milwaukee Electric, the New Orleans system and the like, there’s no shortage of pics, many previously unseen.

Aside from issues of redundant information, I don't see why this has to be "Facebook vs. forum". It can certainly be both, each according to its talents.

Facebook is a nifty 'social media' platform... for members who restrain their friends list to other technical people. If you can put up with extraneous traffic, not even that.

A properly-set-up forum allows you to pick and choose what threads of discussion you want to see. Unlike 'certain other forums' which only offer forward or reverse-order views of all the posts, this one allows quick jumping to 'first unread' which gives it much of the effective functionality of Facebook in following 'conversations'. In addition, it is easier to find old material grouped by 'thread' and acessible by search on 'topics' as well as looking for keywords in posts.

I well remember the days of e-mail reflactors, where everyone got everything nearly immediately. For what I was doing (design and standards establishment of the first generation of open DVR) this was a good, if somewhat fire-hosy, way to keep up with your technical peers. But the least little upset, like someone not watching their security closely enough, could result in amazing viral replication risk...

I was a great fan of the initial rolling of eGroups in with "Yahoo Clubs" for many years. This let you easily find threads, download only the content of interest rather than be shot all the bandwidth-using garbage, and allowed reasonable display of the progressive comments in the thread. That got increasingly ruined during the /neo/ fiasco. On the other hand, any kind of technical 'collateral' was essentially provided 'free' via a large media organization that could subsidize cheap and lavish server space -- the successor to Yahoo Groups, groups.io, is crippled almost to the point of worthlessness by requiring subscription payment for photos and files above ridiculously-small limits.

An issue in the past is which 'members' in organizations maintain all the online stuff. They may want to just whiz up a Facebook page and let everyone provide the content that interests them; I don't see Facebook being conveniently moderated in most of the respects the 'old' Yahoo Groups could be.

What is wildly successful for social ohne-to-many media is not necessarily that which serves specialist communities... the question then becomes whether you 'standardize' on platforms and collateral that are enticing to new people and the general public, outside the preservation/museum community as the 'people behind the curtain' would use things...

RYPN has a multitude of ways it can be more useful as a database, an archive, a magazine, etc.

It can be developed and a useful website that does a lot of nifty things can be wrapped around the forum.

There is not really a lack of technical skill to make this possible, but the lack of RYPN responsiveness or stewardship. Can anyone really say who is driving the RYPN ship?

There have been repeated, repeated, repeated, repeated attempts to work with mods/admins dating back to 2017 to help bring RYPN's full potential into the 21st Century. There were meetings, phone calls, site maps, and content strategies developed -- and it went nowhere.

There is a "Redevelopment" forum on RYPN (visible only to a few participants) that was used for some time to help develop the next evolution (RYPN 3.0?) but try for the life of me, not a single person with keys to the thing will respond to an email to further the conversation. RYPN is otherwise destined otherwise to mostly just be a watercolor instead of a proactive or leading entity.

Here's as far as things got in trying to bring RYPN into the current century (using a temporary URL): http://www.savethetrains.com/news/

I have been following this thread for a while quietly, and I honestly think that mock-up is one of the best things I have seen of all the proposals with a professional front page and cleanly written articles. It gives me an excuse to write out the thoughts that have been stewing in my head since this thread started.

To be honest, the death of a this forum is not in my opinion a bad thing. I think its not a secret I want to slap half of the users on here even my best of days, and I made a mental goal myself to avoid posting on RYPN as much as possible except in the rare cases where I feel I actually have something to contribute. Or a strong desire to try and slap somebody.

But these kind of insular forums, tend to attract certain crowds, those who enjoy an insular social setting, those who are well established already, hucksters (like a certain banned member facing a prison sentence who is the favorite subject of rumor here now), and those on the peak of "Mount Stupidity" in the Dunning-Kruger Effect (a place the older I get the more in hindsight I see my own old opinions resting at). Not to mention the witch-hunt pitchforks that come out whenever somebody says something people disagree with here makes it so the "old guard" always seems to try and chase off the new if their opinion isn't within the pecking order established (the fetishization of "well I use my real name as my username here!" in particular. No matter how many times I say my IRL name is Jacob Lyman, I still get people acting like its some big gotcha moment when they point out "Haha, Travis; like that is your REAL name is it?" Its just a username I have been using for nearly two decades that is actually a reference to a cousin who owned an Xbox back in like, 2002-04 that impressed me enough as a child to use as a username, and not to mention the internet safety reasons for not using my real name on forums when I was just 9-10 years old at the time either. I may be an adult now, but the username remains out of habit.)

My point is though, it speaks volumes on who is absent here though, or even inactive members who rarely speak anymore. Take for example probably the most famous steam restorationist in America right now, Ed Dickens with UP Steam. To my knowledge he has never set foot in this forum and if he has his time was long in the past (nor, why would he? Some of the posters here are also active on TrainOrders where the anti-Ed campaign borders on outright libel at this point). I know Stathi Pappas has/had an account here, but I don't see him much around recently either; and why would he? He has his own steam engine to run and a new job with the California Western that is more important than rubbing elbows with the has-beens and the wannabees. I do appreciate when he does get on to briefly chime in with his thoughts, but its a rare occasion now. The Nevada Northern, constantly producing amazing works of restoration miracles and planning massive expansions avoids this place entirely; and its how we end up with a thread on the ongoing activities of the NN primarily spoken in by us outside third parties speculating and guessing as to what miracle Mark Bassett and Co. have planned next. What about any preservation that takes place outside the US? We don't see almost any British or Australian or other English speaking countries at all present outside the US and Canada, and they clearly aren't rushing here to join us in droves either.

The simple reality is those who are do instead of talk in this industry moved away from this forum long ago. The discussions of "technical discourse" people reminisced about in previous posts are past-tense moments, and have long been absent here. The doers are busy with ASME manuals, learning machining and welding skills, boiler code, and studying physics/statics/dynamics/mechanics. The doers are not trying to rub elbows with the has-been steam train men who congregate and bemoan their opinions on modern society, politics, and the wistfully talk of the "good old days." While RYPN wasted electrons complaining about the coal mine shutdowns in Britain, doers were actually testing alternate coal sources while lobbying to the politicians to avert effecting the heritage rail industry. While RYPN wasted electrons complaining about how they would run Steamtown better, actual NPS employees have been rolling up their sleeves going to work and doing actual things at Steamtown. The forum has become the digital equivalent of a bunch of old men in a coffee shop, with a couple of their grandkids in tow who they brought along to show the rest of their buddies; then going on long Abe Simpson rants about how good things used to be. I'm still not sure how some of the stuff previously mentioned in this thread (birth rates... seriously?) have anything to do with the question at hand at all other than that Abe Simpson-ism shining through at its brightest. At least it creates endless meme fodder elsewhere to laugh at.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yujF8AumiQo

Yes, Facebook has dominated social media discourse on rail discussion with its ability for photo sharing. But do not think that Facebook is the hip trendy place either. In time, it too will die; and already railfans are moving to YouTube or Twitter, or the walled garden environment of Discord. Flickr holds steady for all its problems, just because it has massive photo file sizes available to view in crystal clear clarity. The exodus off Facebook has already began, and while its not going to die anytime soon; don't try and be "hip" by imitating any of Meta's dying throes. It would have about the same usefulness as trying to model this site's future off MySpace, because Facebook may have been "it" and is still for now "it," but there is no promise it will still be "it" by the close of this decade. The attempt to try and follow social media trends would be for a small site as this, suicidal. Its impossible to compete and by the time RYPN catches up it would already be out of date.

Which in my round-about way, is getting back to the upgraded site proposal Nathan shared. Cut out the Interchange entirely except for sales posting, and focus instead on the one way to guarantee a focus on technical discussion, curated articles. Let the forum give into its death throes, then refocus the site on being a clean modern updated visual presentation for that kind of ASME/historical/operations/journals/safety articles that need to be placed front in center. No focus on old men daydreaming about reliving their past glories, no place for the youngsters to argue about their favorite Thomas & Friends episodes, and certainly a lot less of a chance to spread rumors about those who are no longer here (yeah the gossip in me is certainly curious to hear what happens next in Rimmasch's legal woes, but the realist in me tells me its not doing anything to make me a better mechanical engineering student or future aid to railway preservation to focus on if the courts have repossessed Rimboy's house, car or pets yet). Let the pretense of a social site die, to save the real meat and potatoes which have long been lost under the fluff of the forums; and have a vetting process to decide what articles of value can be submitted and published.

And THEN, use the URL links to those articles (and maybe videos if daring enough) to share them to every social media avenue possible. Share the links to Facebook, to Twitter, to Instagram, to your favorite Discord servers, to Reddit, in private messages to your friends, your old school Yahoo emailing lists, etc. Let the social aspect the forums are trying to hold up happen elsewhere, and if people want to be idiots or argue there; its out of this site's hands; and at the end of the day its just fine that is the case. BUT instead a more scholarly approach to what is actually on the site means that it offers real technical and historical lessons again.

Trying to prop up the forum eternally in the hopes that somehow it can "lure people back" is just a lost cause if the focus is on social features. Refocus on actual content of merit though, and while the work to create such will be harder the rewards of quality will eventually be reaped.

Honestly if the people who "hold the keys" don't hand over the reigns to a site plan like Nathan's, it might also be time for a rebel cause to honestly split off and do it without the forum's "blessing." Sometimes the only secure way to successfully create change for the better is to divorce from the dying and old, and run at a breakneck pace towards a strong vision of the future. Its not like the idea of "railway technical/historical articles with a preservation bent" is copyrighted and needs RYPN's blessing to continue anyways... the only limit to such a vision is our own willingness to attempt it.

Keep in mind that the last article posted on this site was in 2008, and was the only one posted in that year. In 2007, only three articles were posted.

This always gets back to the basic question of who will write the articles and produce content for a site entirely controlled by others.

PC

I have read that there have been several attempts to re-establish the posting of articles, and there are technical issues that make it impossible. I agree that it would not take long to make the Articles section a 'powerhouse resource' in a comparatively short time if it were re-enabled, even though there are alternative potential 'markets' for article authors.

PCook's notes on EMD details, alone, would make it worthwhile.

And as I have mentioned in the past, the very best (printed) support for technical history articles is at R&LHS "Railroad History". They have done a great job with everything I have sent to them for ten years now. The series of articles on the EMD plant and the chronology in issues 218, 219, 220 and 226 now total around 106 pages of printed presentation. Nobody else in the publishing industry showed as much interest in preserving the history of EMD.

PC

Dave Collison owns the site. He is content with letting it exist but is not interested in doing anything to enhance it. So it remains in a sort of limbo, operating on outdated software and incapable of becoming more than it currently is.

One of my main interests in becoming a moderator was to help with the rebirth of RYPN as it is a valuable resource, especially the decades of searchable posts. But despite Kelly's efforts and taking time to show what a reborn RYPN could become, as long as Dave won't lift a finger, RYPN will remain that coma patient over there in the corner of the ICU just waiting for the day someone turns the switch off.

Perhaps this site takes preservation too seriously. We are one of the few places on the Internet who has so thoroughly preserved the 1990s web forum experience!

Here's an apt analogy:

The East Broad Top was a privately-owned asset with an ownership that seemed content to just keep plodding along with no real effort. There were volunteer efforts and partnerships, but as long as the railroad had no determined future or even a mission statement beyond just existing, there was minimal effort contributed.

Now that a private foundation has acquired ownership and secured a rosier future, all of a sudden the outside efforts and donations have skyrocketed. As just one barometer, the average "street price" of the "definitive" hardback history of the line has tripled in price.

At this point, if I came up with an article for this site, not only do I have no clue who it goes to or whether it would be published, but I'd be sure that software and firmware upgrades would render it unreadable in about a year or two, as "obsolete" as this site has become. I've had to upgrade several websites for others just to keep them readable on smartphones, maintain security, etc., and in all that time nothing's happened here...............