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 Post subject: The Illuminating Co. 0-6-0 Fireless Number 6 - Lake Shore
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:01 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:32 pm
Posts: 46
So while looking to compile a list of running steam locomotives in Pennsylvania that I have yet to see, I came across the Lake Shore Railway Historical Society up in the Northern part of the state. Multiple websites, including their own, state that they have the only operational fireless steam locomotive in North America (The Illuminating Co. #6). However, after browsing their website, I cannot find an operating schedule, only museum hours. I called them last week and no response during business hours. I also contacted via email and their online form a week ago and, again, no reply. Does anyone know if that fireless steam locomotive is even running anymore? I can't really find any good videos of it anywhere either. I'd love to see it since it is unique as it's the only one running, but I'm doubtful that is actually runs.

Which brings me into a more preservation-related aspect, why don't more fireless steam locomotives operate? The one in PA says it runs on compressed air. Sure, it's not a conventional steam locomotive and to restore one to actually be "recharged" like they were when they were in actual service would be a tedious and probably uneconomical process, but most are small and I would assume be relatively easy projects compared to larger locomotives.


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 Post subject: Re: The Illuminating Co. 0-6-0 Fireless Number 6 - Lake Shor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 1:13 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:12 pm
Posts: 42
I have also looked into this particular locomotive in the past couple months, particularly when I was touring PA, WV, and MD for a week or so during 2102's first excursion run. I couldn't find much info on the #6 specifically, so I just moved on. Their website has a 2022 schedule and does list the #6 as operational still, but the description also says it was restored in 2002. I don't know how FRA 1,472-day/15-year policies would apply to a fireless or compressed air steam locomotive. If they still did, it should be needing the overhaul. If not, then my guess is that it's a one or two weekend run per year. You probably don't see much coverage of it because let's be honest (nothing against Lake Shore), there are FAR more interesting steam locomotives in Pennsylvania to see. In fact, I'd argue that PA is one of the leading states in the Eastern US in steam locomotive preservation. When you have 3-4 running steam locomotives as Strasburg (with another under restoration), RBM&N 2102 and 425, N&W 611 (at least for now), Pioneer Tunnel, Steamtown's #26, CNJ 113 under restoration/maintenance work, New Hope & Ivyland, the EBT restorations, and some others that I'm probably forgetting that run far more frequently, you aren't going to have a lot of people waiting for a one run per year deal for something that runs on compressed air. Plus, even if you run out of things to see in PA, you have two very nice operations up in NJ, Cass and Locust Heights & Western in WV, and the 1309 at the WMSR 1309 in MD (well WV, but basically MD).

Addressing why there aren't more operational fireless steam locomotives, you pretty much answered your own question. But to add to that, as I mentioned, railfans would be more likely to gravitate towards locomotives producing smoke like traditional steamers, rather than something running on compressed air. There are lots of fireless engines beautifully preserved cosmetically, but from an operational standpoint, the interest just really isn't there.


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 Post subject: Re: The Illuminating Co. 0-6-0 Fireless Number 6 - Lake Shor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:43 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:26 am
Posts: 95
Location: Princeton, NJ
When I had a question for the museum I got a pretty fast response by contacting them on their facebook page.


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 Post subject: Re: The Illuminating Co. 0-6-0 Fireless Number 6 - Lake Shor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:53 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:47 pm
Posts: 216
The locomotive you mention is not technically operational. Years ago it was operated occasionally by charging it with compressed air and running back and forth for a few minutes until the air quickly depleted. I do not think they have done this in any recent time as its not a practical way to run a fireless. There are videos of this on YouTube, and a detailed explanation of how it was done at Lake Shore was covered a number of years ago in a thread here on RYPN.

As far as CFR Part 230, it does apply. Everything that is applicable is, except that service days fo a fireless count as any day there is steam pressure above atmospheric in the boiler, versus the "normal" service day definition of the same PLUS a fire in the firebox. But you are right. With no firebox, no tubes, ect. the "boiler" (not technically a boiler on a firelss, rather it is considered a storage tank) is much simpler, and thus a 1472 SDI would require "less" work, with none of that to repair.

Why aren't there any that run? They're all for the most part small with limited power, and require several hours of charging time using a separate boiler to supply steam (so you're now maintaining two boilers/vessels to run one engine). After it's charged your run time varies depending on the locomotive and how much work it's doing- let's say about three or four hours for the average back in the day. But those three or four hours are rated for their designed stop-and-go switching duties- take one out for the average out and back museum train ride and you'll be running much more, for longer, using more steam, and thus get even less run time before needing to recharge the engine.

In summation- they don't make sense for most applications where someone wants to run a steam locomotive

The last fireless to run in revenue service in the US was down at a plant in Elizabethon, Tennessee, where it ran from 1936 to 1992. It's preserved at a park and under cover there today. Seeing firelesses in revenue service was not uncommon even into the 1970s and 80s. The last time a fireless ran in the preservation scene was when the 0-6-0F at Steamtown was charged up for an event back in the 1980s, but I don't think it was so much "restored" to run as it was (I assume hydroed) and then charged to run for the one day- at least to my knowledge.

Thusly, I consider it a true statement that "a fireless locomotive has never been restored to operate in preservation in the US". Maybe a potential goal for a group just running short demonstrations to be "the first" and land that milestone eventually?

-Sam


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 Post subject: Re: The Illuminating Co. 0-6-0 Fireless Number 6 - Lake Shor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 7:33 am 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 984
Location: Bucks County, PA
I asked back in January if the locomotive was currently operational and got the reply:

“ Not currently, years of wet north western Pennsylvania weather has allowed moisture to sit in several nooks and crannies on the piping and connections, which has caused a leak somewhere in the pressure system.

Additionally, at this age the pressure pot would need an inspection (and likely repairs) akin to a boiler before we would be comfortable putting any pressure on it.”

So there you have it. Currently not operational and in need of unspecified repairs.

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 Post subject: Re: The Illuminating Co. 0-6-0 Fireless Number 6 - Lake Shor
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 10:54 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:12 pm
Posts: 42
Boilermaker wrote:
So there you have it. Currently not operational and in need of unspecified repairs.


Ah, that's a bummer, but in reality, there's really no need to fix those issues since it's not really practical to run it. It has a nice paint job and looks fine on display.


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 Post subject: Re: The Illuminating Co. 0-6-0 Fireless Number 6 - Lake Shor
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 8:05 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
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Location: Youngstown, OH
That fireless hasn't run in years and the members who made that happen are now gone as well. They used to have a very active membership base but several of them left years ago and since then not much has been going on aside from the continued piling up of GE locomotives.

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 Post subject: Re: The Illuminating Co. 0-6-0 Fireless Number 6 - Lake Shor
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:06 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 1:21 pm
Posts: 241
Location: Niagara Falls, Ontario
The Niagara Railway Museum in Fort Erie, Ontario has 1 of only 2 true Fireless locomotives in Canada, both of which are in Ontario. Our unit is quite unique being 30" gauge, no cab, built by Porter in July 1943. We had someone come to our opening weekend back in May and tell us we need to get it operating. It has sat outside at a different location since 1984, with little to no care given to it. The previous owners covered holed in the jacket with black duct tape!! The running gear is seized, and some fittings are missing. Plus, it's 30" gauge. If we want to run it, it would have to be off air, and we'd end up with 2ft gauge, 30" gauge and standard gauge. Seeing the video of the Lake Shore fireless operating is neat, something different for show. Would definitely be nice to see a fireless running, but...


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File comment: Illuminating Company 6 on June 17th 2022.
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 Post subject: Re: The Illuminating Co. 0-6-0 Fireless Number 6 - Lake Shor
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 7:10 pm 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 984
Location: Bucks County, PA
My thought is - wouldn't having the "Only Operating Fireless Steam Locomotive in" (insert your location here) be a pretty good/great marketing tool to have? Even if it's only charged up on steam a couple of times per month or year - would that not be a good thing for a smaller museum (or any museum/railroad, really) to have/use to their advantage?

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 Post subject: Re: The Illuminating Co. 0-6-0 Fireless Number 6 - Lake Shor
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:50 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:12 pm
Posts: 42
bigjim4life wrote:
My thought is - wouldn't having the "Only Operating Fireless Steam Locomotive in" (insert your location here) be a pretty good/great marketing tool to have?


That was my thought as well. Perhaps they don't deem it worth the repairs considering the wide variety of steam preservation options for someone visiting Pennsylvania. The state is quite large and there's a lots of preservation efforts right now. I'll be making my second trip (3 days) this weekend to PA and even after spending 5 days there in late May, I'll still be missing a good 5-7 steamers that are operational at this point (discounting any zoo or amusement park ones). On the other hand, in the area the Lake Shore is in, there's not many close steam locomotives to see, unlike the more Eastern portion of the state. I have found a few videos, but not many, so perhaps it just never drew the crowds.

It is interesting that their website is updated with news from 2022 and a 2022 schedule, yet they still list themselves as having the only operable fireless steam locomotive in the U.S. I don't know if that would indicate potential overhaul plans or not, but it's not like their website is outdated, so they are making the decision to keep it listed as operational.


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