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 Post subject: FRA Non-Insular Tourist Railroad Safety Jurisdiction Scope.
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:20 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:21 pm
Posts: 18
Hi -- First, my apologies if this has been covered by RYPN members before (feel free to drop this thread and just link to a better one!).

I'm trying to understand the scope of FRA inspections regarding non-insular tourist railroads. I came across a graphic that I will try inserting below, from https://railroads.dot.gov/legislation-regulations/regulations-rulemaking/safety-jurisdiction-tourist-railroads:
Image

I found the reasoning for the limitation (from https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/appendix-A_to_part_209in scope as follows:
Quote:
If a tourist operation off the general system is insular, FRA does not exercise jurisdiction over it, and none of FRA's rules apply. If, however, such an operation is not insular, FRA exercises jurisdiction over the operation, and some of FRA's rules (i.e., those that specifically apply beyond the general system to such operations) will apply. For example, FRA's rules on accident reporting, steam locomotives, and grade crossing signals apply to these non-insular tourist operations (see 49 CFR 225.3, 230.2 amd 234.3), as do all of FRA's procedural rules (49 CFR parts 209, 211, and 216) and the Federal railroad safety statutes themselves.

In drafting safety rules, FRA has a specific obligation to consider financial, operational, or other factors that may be unique to tourist operations. 49 U.S.C. 20103(f). Accordingly, FRA is careful to consider those factors in determining whether any particular rule will apply to tourist operations. Therefore, although FRA asserts jurisdiction quite broadly over these operations, we work to ensure that the rules we issue are appropriate to their somewhat special circumstances.

It is important to note that FRA's exercise of its regulatory authority on a given matter does not preclude it from subsequently amending its regulations on that subject to bring in railroads originally excluded. More important, the self-imposed restrictions on FRA's exercise of regulatory authority in no way constrain its exercise of emergency order authority under section 203 of the Safety Act. That authority was designed to deal with imminent hazards not dealt with by existing regulations and/or so dangerous as to require immediate, ex parte action on the government's part. Thus, a railroad excluded from the reach of any of FRA's regulations is fully within the reach of FRA's emergency order authority, which is coextensive with FRA's statutory jurisdiction over all railroads.


So, as an example, 49 CFR part 213 refers to Track Safety Standards (see https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/part-213. Does this fall outside the scope of the FRA, and if so, are inspections (section 213.233) then discretionary, or at the state level? Obviously regardless of the inspecting authority, all tourist railroads have an obligation to operate safe equipment in a safe manner: I'd just like to understand the FRA's scope in the process regarding tourist railroads better. Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: FRA Non-Insular Tourist Railroad Safety Jurisdiction Sco
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 3:54 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Quote:
I'd just like to understand the FRA's scope in the process regarding tourist railroads better.


Without sounding flippant, it depends. There are tourist railroads that are also general system railroads, which have to comply with all FRA regulations.

It’s been a while since I’ve done a survey, but I suspect most tourist operations fall into the “non insular non general system” category.

Do you have a specific regulation or property you’d like to discuss?

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 Post subject: Re: FRA Non-Insular Tourist Railroad Safety Jurisdiction Sco
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:27 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
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Location: New Franklin, OH
We’re non-insular so we work to comply with the regulations listed and then some just to be safe. I’ve had conversations with the local FRA track inspector (he called us) about our operation so we’re on their radar. It behooves you to comply. Have an accident due to bad track and you’ll be introduced to your local track inspector lickety-split. They may not exercise jurisdiction in general but will step in when necessary.

I keep a current copy of all the Title 49 Parts that we have to comply with as well as those we should comply with and do. We operate as professionally as possible so in case something happens, we can defend ourselves better and avoid fines for being a bunch of clueless yahoos.

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 Post subject: Re: FRA Non-Insular Tourist Railroad Safety Jurisdiction Sco
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:48 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
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Location: Youngstown, OH
Eric,

What makes your operation non insular? I'm familiar with the property and can't think of what puts you over the threshold.

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 Post subject: Re: FRA Non-Insular Tourist Railroad Safety Jurisdiction Sco
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 6:55 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
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Location: New Franklin, OH
We have an active grade crossing at S. Crownhill Rd. It's a stub of the old main that we occasionally use for headroom or storage when switching.

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 Post subject: Re: FRA Non-Insular Tourist Railroad Safety Jurisdiction Sco
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:03 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:21 pm
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Thanks -- I'm definitely looking at the non-insular tourist railroad category (physically isolated from the network, no traffic on our tracks other than us, and crossing a couple of roads). We actually have track inspections, which I'm sure have been way more lenient than mainline track standards. But I'm curious, are we supposed to have FRA inspections annually, or are we supposed to do our own inspections and report, or... I face the same challenge in my own field with state licensing inspectors as many small business owners do, and I know very well who and what can shut us down. I'd like to have that same level of understanding with tourist railroads.
Quote:
I keep a current copy of all the Title 49 Parts that we have to comply with as well as those we should comply with and do. We operate as professionally as possible so in case something happens, we can defend ourselves better and avoid fines for being a bunch of clueless yahoos.
Eric, would you mind sharing on site or telling me where I can learn your understanding of Title 49? Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: FRA Non-Insular Tourist Railroad Safety Jurisdiction Sco
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 7:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:06 am
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Location: NE PA
Title 49 subtitle B chapter II covering FRA regulations can be found here:
https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/subtitle-B/chapter-II

Mike Tillger


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 Post subject: Re: FRA Non-Insular Tourist Railroad Safety Jurisdiction Sco
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 8:04 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:45 pm
Posts: 301
Quote:
But I'm curious, are we supposed to have FRA inspections annually, or are we supposed to do our own inspections and report


First, be very careful with your terms. You should be doing your own railroad inspections, which can be tighter than those mandated by the FRA. There are a lot of these, including equipment, track, signals, etc. You document these showing date, locations, who did it, anything found and remedial actions taken, etc. However, the FRA has basic standards for most of these inspections, and who can do them.

The FRA inspections are those done by the FRA themselves, or their state partners. They generally look at each property based upon a rough formula of Class of railroad, Class of track, equipment types, and potential risks (haz-mats, passengers, local schools, etc.).

Understand that this is all general, there are a large number of details. I teach a 5-day workshop for the University of Tennessee on the FRA Track Safety Standards (49 CFR Part 213) and it can take several hours to cover this discussion just for the track rules.

If you have specifics, post them and there are a number of us on RYPN who work with these that might be able to help.

Bart Jennings


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 Post subject: Re: FRA Non-Insular Tourist Railroad Safety Jurisdiction Sco
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 9:47 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:52 pm
Posts: 161
wilkinsd wrote:
Quote:
I'd just like to understand the FRA's scope in the process regarding tourist railroads better.


Without sounding flippant, it depends. There are tourist railroads that are also general system railroads, which have to comply with all FRA regulations.

It’s been a while since I’ve done a survey, but I suspect most tourist operations fall into the “non insular non general system” category.

Do you have a specific regulation or property you’d like to discuss?


I would agree that the majority of tourist operators fall into the “non insular” category. In addition to the tourist railroad flow chart, one should review the “applicability” section of each regulation for additional clarification.

Mike Ramsey
FRA


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 Post subject: Re: FRA Non-Insular Tourist Railroad Safety Jurisdiction Sco
PostPosted: Fri Jan 28, 2022 11:33 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 1789
Location: New Franklin, OH
If you go to the govinfo.gov website, you can search for and download the parts and codes in PDF format. Download everything on the chart.

If you have specific questions, ask here. RYPN has folks like Mike and Bart that know this stuff much better than I do.

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 Post subject: Re: FRA Non-Insular Tourist Railroad Safety Jurisdiction Sco
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 12:06 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 747
First, that chart is not "the law" but an interpretation of the law. Bottom line, is that if you run on rails, if you scare them bad enough, the FRA can come hunt you down. I don't know how often that has ever happened.

First question, are you a part of the system? You are allowed to be connected, the FRA expects you may do things such as have equipment delivered in and out, or maybe get a few gondolas of ballast for your RR. But you can't switch cars for customers or allow others to do so over your tracks.

2nd, is are your insular? The basic premise, is that can anyone, other then a customer or employee, get to your RR without trespassing? If you have a crossing, even a footpath, you are not insular. If you have bridge OVER a footpath, not insular. Not too many tourist RR's can manage to have both a few miles of rail and also stay insular.

As I see it, the FRA will not inspect or enforce track standards on you, which is a privilege to use wisely. What you could run a gang car on safely, you may not be able to run larger equipment on. I think that's the case for many of the unenforced regulations, to give you breathing room for obsolete equipment, light loadings and low speeds.

I wonder if there would be enforcement of part 230, if there had been no Gettysburg? Which suggest that if something bad happens, the FRA may expand their range of enforcements.


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 Post subject: Re: FRA Non-Insular Tourist Railroad Safety Jurisdiction Sco
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 1:32 am 

Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:52 pm
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Pegasuspinto wrote:
First, that chart is not "the law" but an interpretation of the law. Bottom line, is that if you run on rails, if you scare them bad enough, the FRA can come hunt you down. I don't know how often that has ever happened.

Clarification - The Federal Railroad Administration (“FRA”) enforces the Federal railroad safety statutes under delegation from the Secretary of Transportation. Regulations implementing the Federal rail safety laws are found at 49 CFR parts 209-244. The flow chart is based on policy as outlined in 49 CFR Part 209, Appendix A and FRA policy regarding jurisdiction on tourist/excursion operations. It is a tool to assist the rail operator understand what regulations apply , by policy, based on the operational environment (insular, non insular, general system)

First question, are you a part of the system? You are allowed to be connected, the FRA expects you may do things such as have equipment delivered in and out, or maybe get a few gondolas of ballast for your RR. But you can't switch cars for customers or allow others to do so over your tracks.

2nd, is are your insular? The basic premise, is that can anyone, other then a customer or employee, get to your RR without trespassing? If you have a crossing, even a footpath, you are not insular. If you have bridge OVER a footpath, not insular. Not too many tourist RR's can manage to have both a few miles of rail and also stay insular.

Clarification - A tourist operation will not be considered insular if one or more of the following exists on its line:

A public highway-rail crossing[/u] that is in use; Clarification - This isn't a "footpath", but any public highway grade crossing. Private crossings, pedestrian crossings, etc. do not fall under this term.

An at-grade rail crossing that is in use; Clarification - This is where the track of a railroad crosses the tracks of the tourist railroad,

A bridge over a public road or waters used for commercial navigation; or Clarification - Typically a tourist railroad crossing on a bridge over a public highway/road or a water way (think draw bridge).

A common corridor with a railroad, i.e., its operations are within 30 feet of those of any railroad.

As I see it, the FRA will not inspect or enforce track standards on you, which is a privilege to use wisely. What you could run a gang car on safely, you may not be able to run larger equipment on. I think that's the case for many of the unenforced regulations, to give you breathing room for obsolete equipment, light loadings and low speeds.

Clarification - See 49 CFR Part 213.3, Applicability. Part 213 has always been a minimum industry standard and is used by transit and plant railroads. A railroad excluded from the reach of any of FRA's regulations is within the reach of FRA's emergency order authority, which is coextensive with FRA's statutory jurisdiction over all railroads.

I wonder if there would be enforcement of part 230, if there had been no Gettysburg? Which suggest that if something bad happens, the FRA may expand their range of enforcements.


Clarification-FRA was enforcing Part 230 prior to Gettysburg and the regulation was being reviewed by the tourist industry and FRA at the time for revision. That revision just happened to come after the incident at Gettysburg.

Reading the complete "The Extent And Exercise Of FRA's Safety Jurisdiction" in https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-49/s ... Part%20209 will provide a better overall understanding of FRA's jurisdiction of all railroads, including tourist/excursion operations.

As always, please feel free to reach out to me personally for any clarification or guidance regarding your specific circumstance or operation.

Mike Ramsey
FRA Passenger Rail Safety Specialist


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 Post subject: Re: FRA Non-Insular Tourist Railroad Safety Jurisdiction Sco
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 3:59 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 747
OK, I should ask for clarification:

Part 209 appendix A says an operation is not insular if "At grade rail crossing" or "bridge over public road" is in use.
On the first one, they take to time to list BOTH a "public highway grade crossing" and a "At grade rail crossing". Part 209 does not appear to define "Grade Crossing", but part 234 does-sorta. It defines a "Highway-Rail Grade Crossing" and a "Pathway Grade Crossing", to me that would imply that just a plain "Grade Crossing" would be both. A search in 234 makes it appear that only in a few instances is a highway crossing regulated different then a pathway crossing. So when I say footpath, I mean a "pathway grade crossing", not a illegal crossing over your line.

On the second one, we now have to define "public road", I don't see where that specific term is defined, but "road" has been in use long before Motor vehicles, and could be defined as any corridor of transit.


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 Post subject: Re: FRA Non-Insular Tourist Railroad Safety Jurisdiction Sco
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 8:59 am 

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:45 pm
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Quote:
we now have to define 'public road'


This can be a tricky question. A number of years ago when I served on a state committee writing updated grade crossing regulations for the State of Tennessee, this was a big issue. Some wanted to define "public" as any road with public access, such as a private road into a farm or shopping center (those were the examples we had).

However, the term "public" road crossing is generally used for roads that are owned by a public (government) agency such as a city, township, county, or state. This can vary a bit as I have been told a few states go further. For example, when I worked for Union Pacific in Oregon, the state inspector would hit me on signs at privately-owned grade crossings.

So, this again is where research is needed to see first what the FRA says, and then what your state says. States can add regulations in areas the FRA doesn't have them - for example, Tennessee has regulations about walkways around switches while the FRA doesn't.

Finally, if you can get one (some are on the FRA website), get a copy of the enforcement manual for the rules that you are concerned about. These books explain what the current interpretation is of each rule and how they should be enforced. These are what the inspectors, regional offices, and even the D.C. attorneys use to make decisions. Do note that they can change, a 1998 track enforcement book looks nothing like a current one, for example.

Complex enough? The key is to protect yourself and the public by doing inspections, documenting them, and making any repairs or the remedial actions necessary. I recommend to people all the time to look for justification to make the inspections, not ways of getting out of them. I know of too many cases where failure has occurred even when the inspections were made, so more are seldom too many.

Bart


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 Post subject: Re: FRA Non-Insular Tourist Railroad Safety Jurisdiction Sco
PostPosted: Sat Jan 29, 2022 10:07 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:06 am
Posts: 540
Location: NE PA
Good things to know about, as mentioned above:
Track compliance manual
https://railroads.dot.gov/elibrary/track-and-rail-and-infrastructure-integrity-compliance-manual-volume-i-chapter-2-field-1

Motive power & equipment manual
https://railroads.dot.gov/sites/fra.dot.gov/files/2020-05/MPEComplianceManual2013.pdf

Operating practices
https://railroads.dot.gov/elibrary/operating-practices-compliance-manual

Others and more
https://railroads.dot.gov/taxonomy/term/14801

Mike Tillger


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