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 Post subject: Re: Iowa Pacific sale
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 11:41 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2452
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
From a post I made way back in 2002 (wow, has it been that long ago?):

That car was D&H 154, originally built for NYC as number 519 by Pullman in 1914. It was air-conditioned in the late 1930s. D&H bought at least two NYC steel diners in the mid-50s, to replace composite (wood-steel) D&H cars. 154 was sold to Empire State Railway Museum, and operated on the 1966-67 HICO trips over the CNJ (powered by CPR G-5s 1278, 1286 and 1238). As I recall, William Whitehead and his family ran the diner and actually served "real" railroad diner meals to the passengers! Imagine THAT today! Bill Whitehead was one of the founders of the Black River & Western, and was instrumental in the acquisition of Dansvile & Mt. Morris 565 (AKA D&LW 565, 2-6-0).

Anyway, after the HICO use of the car, ESRM sent it to Essex, CT in 1969, where it joined other ESRM equipment as part of the newly-founded Valley Railroad Company. In 1971, the car was painted dark green and lettered "Connecticut Valley", numbered 154, and named "Lion Gardiner", after the early settler of Gardiner's Island (in Long Island Sound). An early use in that set-up was for a publishing party for Michael Koch's "The Shay Locomotive" book in 1972. I remember loading (by hand and ladder) block ice into the roof hatches over the kitchen ice bunker, before a charter trip!

The car was getting quite "crusty" around the edges, as early steel cars that had been air-conditioned tend to get. Also, it suffered from the usual "kitchen floor rot syndrome". While everything was there and intact, it was going to be a hell of a costly project to fix the old girl up, and she was shoved into the "woods" at Essex about 1976 or so. A frozen water pipe that had burst and wet down the interior didn't help matters.

The car was ultimately sent to the current ESRM at Kingston, NY, about 1986, as part of a negotiated (between ESRM, VRR and CVRM [RMNE]) "deal" for ESRM's various assets (not all of which were rolling stock).

**********************

Added:

The car had a "modernized" 1930s interior installed, with lowered clerestory ceiling, when it was air conditioned in the 30s. D&H used the two-tone gray "NYC colors" on its passenger cars in the 1950s. During the HICO era, and afterwards, 154 was stored by ESRM at CNJ's E'port Shops (along with ESRM's "Arsenal Tower" heavyweight Pullman sleeper- now at Steamtown), and carried repack and brake stenciling from E'port.
At Essex, every time the car was coupled onto, more of it fell onto the ground....

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: Iowa Pacific sale
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2022 6:43 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:34 pm
Posts: 173
Here is a photo from my collection that is supposedly D&H 154 in service some time in the late 1950's.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Iowa Pacific sale
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:39 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2452
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
Dining Car Tim:

Looks nothing like D&H 154.

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: Iowa Pacific sale
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 9:54 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 695
Location: Wall, NJ
Here are two photos of the interior of the Gardner that I took about 2010. One is looking up through the floor but gives some ceiling detail. The other is looking in through the end door.
J.R. May


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 Post subject: Re: Iowa Pacific sale
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:15 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:34 pm
Posts: 173
Howard P. wrote:
Dining Car Tim:

Looks nothing like D&H 154.

Howard P.


Howard,

OK thanks. It was in a file I picked up with D&H menus and other 1950's era D&H paper. Any idea if it is a D&H diner?


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 Post subject: Re: Iowa Pacific sale
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:28 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 695
Location: Wall, NJ
> OK thanks. It was in a file I picked up with D&H menus and other 1950's era D&H paper. Any idea if it is a D&H diner?

Based on the photos I just posted it looks quite similar. Perhaps some lighting updates, but the ceiling looks the same.

J.R. May


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 Post subject: Re: Iowa Pacific sale
PostPosted: Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:56 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 2217
Quote:
At Essex, every time the car was coupled onto, more of it fell onto the ground....


That and the 2010 pictures sum things up. What miracle was IP planning when it acquired this relic?

Wesley


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 Post subject: Re: Iowa Pacific sale
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:16 am 

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:29 am
Posts: 300
So...what happened to the Minnesota Zephyr dinner train set? The F's seem to have sold...the cars were on the sale list, but not in Ozark....
Did the cars that were stuck in Saratoga get sold? I think there was a Seaboard diner #6114? And a combine that maybe belonged to URHS?


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 Post subject: Re: Iowa Pacific sale
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 6:39 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1765
Not sure what to make of this, if it is the same car it would be a tremendous save:

https://www.facebook.com/colebrookdaler ... 8390332287

"Colebrookdale Railroad - The Secret Valley Line
28m
·
As we gracefully transition to a new year we are undoubtedly aware of new horizons and new changes to come.
Here at the Colebrookdale Railroad, one of the biggest changes that we look forward to this year is the outfitting of our dining car, The Lion Gardiner with her interior of pure Edwardian splendor.
Below is a snippet of the interior design plan as well as the new layout for The Lion Gardiner which will feature THREE stained glass domes and a working fireplace!"


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 Post subject: Re: Iowa Pacific sale
PostPosted: Wed Jan 12, 2022 10:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 18, 2008 11:48 pm
Posts: 117
Location: Watchung, NJ
Good evening folks,

I just wanted to add a brief comment regarding PMC's post above.

PMC wrote:
Not sure what to make of this, if it is the same car it would be a tremendous save:

https://www.facebook.com/colebrookdaler ... 8390332287

"Colebrookdale Railroad - The Secret Valley Line
28m
·
As we gracefully transition to a new year we are undoubtedly aware of new horizons and new changes to come.

Here at the Colebrookdale Railroad, one of the biggest changes that we look forward to this year is the outfitting of our dining car, The Lion Gardiner with her interior of pure Edwardian splendor.

Below is a snippet of the interior design plan as well as the new layout for The Lion Gardiner which will feature THREE stained glass domes and a working fireplace!"


The railcar that the Colebrookdale RR calls the "Lion Gardiner" today is NOT the Lion Gardiner diner that has been discussed herein.

The diner that is discussed in the Colebrookdale Facebook post is actually a former 10-1-2 sleeper that was donated to the Colebrookdale by the Everett RR. Previously gutted for conversion into an open air car, the shell of the car arrived a number of years ago in Boyertown.

I must say, I was very impressed with how that railcar was rebuilt into a 40 seat diner. The car has been running around with a not-quite-complete interior for a while now. It appears they are now going to complete the interior.

The car has remained unnamed for quite some time. It appears that Colebrookdale has decided to completely abandon the restoration of the IP-owned car and elected to name its newly rebuilt diner "Lion Gardiner" instead. Typical of most Colebrookdale projects, Nathaniel will certainly call the rebuilding a "restoration". It is clearly a complete rebuilding of the car, but I digress....

Kudos to Nathaniel and company for a very impressive rebuilding effort. I am looking forward to seeing the completed product. It should be very impressive!

_________________
Eric S. Strohmeyer
CNJ Rail Corporation


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 Post subject: Re: Iowa Pacific sale
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:26 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:34 am
Posts: 505
Location: Granby, CT but formerly Port Jefferson, NY (LIRR MP 57.5)
For those curious about the historical figure commemorated by the name: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion_Gardiner

-Philip Marshall


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 Post subject: Re: Iowa Pacific sale
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 1:42 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2021 2:40 pm
Posts: 42
Eric S Strohmeyer wrote:
Good evening folks,

I just wanted to add a brief comment regarding PMC's post above.

PMC wrote:
Not sure what to make of this, if it is the same car it would be a tremendous save:

https://www.facebook.com/colebrookdaler ... 8390332287

"Colebrookdale Railroad - The Secret Valley Line
28m
·
As we gracefully transition to a new year we are undoubtedly aware of new horizons and new changes to come.

Here at the Colebrookdale Railroad, one of the biggest changes that we look forward to this year is the outfitting of our dining car, The Lion Gardiner with her interior of pure Edwardian splendor.

Below is a snippet of the interior design plan as well as the new layout for The Lion Gardiner which will feature THREE stained glass domes and a working fireplace!"


The railcar that the Colebrookdale RR calls the "Lion Gardiner" today is NOT the Lion Gardiner diner that has been discussed herein.

The diner that is discussed in the Colebrookdale Facebook post is actually a former 10-1-2 sleeper that was donated to the Colebrookdale by the Everett RR. Previously gutted for conversion into an open air car, the shell of the car arrived a number of years ago in Boyertown.

I must say, I was very impressed with how that railcar was rebuilt into a 40 seat diner. The car has been running around with a not-quite-complete interior for a while now. It appears they are now going to complete the interior.

The car has remained unnamed for quite some time. It appears that Colebrookdale has decided to completely abandon the restoration of the IP-owned car and elected to name its newly rebuilt diner "Lion Gardiner" instead. Typical of most Colebrookdale projects, Nathaniel will certainly call the rebuilding a "restoration". It is clearly a complete rebuilding of the car, but I digress....

Kudos to Nathaniel and company for a very impressive rebuilding effort. I am looking forward to seeing the completed product. It should be very impressive!


How to simultaneously hype up and kill the vibe of the New York Central fans in one impressive post.

I agree with the last part of this. While it almost certainly cannot be qualified as a restoration (C'mon, he's turning a sleeping car into a dining car), the refurbishment idea is certainly grand and I wonder how thee project will turn out.

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Next time, take the train! It was Pullman Safety and Comfort after all!


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 Post subject: Re: Iowa Pacific sale
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:26 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1765
Eric S Strohmeyer wrote:

The railcar that the Colebrookdale RR calls the "Lion Gardiner" today is NOT the Lion Gardiner diner that has been discussed herein.

Ah, it is a fake, I suspected as much. I'm still holding out hope that we'll see the real Lion Gardiner restored and then Colebrookdale will need to change the name of their counterfeit version.


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 Post subject: Re: Iowa Pacific sale
PostPosted: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:46 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 2352
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
My WAG as to the "real" Gardner being restored is somewhere between slim and none and slim has left town.

IMHO-Ross Rowland


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