Another railroad I think we could also look at for proposed locomotives is the Louisville & Nashville. We already now about those proposed 4-8-4s for passenger trains north of Mobile. But I do wonder what else was proposed for the L&N in terms of steam power.

I might add a slightly different proposal: Modification of existing locomotives. Santa Fe proposed putting an ex-N&W Y-3 boiler on a 3751 class 4-8-4 chassis. Vernon Smith drew up plans for the conversion in, unfortunately, 1950. In the late thirties, Otto Jabelmann drew up plans to convert the UP 4-12-2's to 4-6-6-2's. According to Kratville and Bush in their book on the UP type, it may have been a ploy to get UP corporate to consider new power.

In regards to the inconsistencies in grate area and the number of axles of the trailing truck: It can be a means to transfer weight from or to the driving wheels. Two examples would be the NKP 4-6-4 that should have been a Pacific. And the GN O-8 Mikado that should have been a 2-8-4.

Don’t forget those proposed Nuclear Powered locomotives they dreamed about in the 1950s. Creative & insanely crazy at the same time.

The Reading 2-10-2's fireboxes had been on 2-8-8-2's where they had been above the drivers. During WWII, RDG removed the trailing trucks from the 20 unconverted 2-8-8-2's.

The T-1 4-8-4 fireboxes with 4-wheel trailing trucks had been on 2-8-0's that had no trailing trucks.

I should add both firebox designs were wide for partial anthracite burning. RDG went to 100% soft coal for road engines around 1937.

Supposedly RDG had considered building the 1948 G-3 4-6-2's as 4-6-4's but they were so close in dimension to the other 40 Pacifics on the road there was no point to it.

Phil Mulligan

Also, were there any proposed steam or diesel locomotive designs ever proposed for the Southern Railway?

I think the Y-3 boiler on a 3751 chassis would have been interesting. Question is what would need to change about the boiler?

On this whole subject, does anyone know of any proposed steam turbine locomotives other than the Pennsylvania Railroad's proposed V1?

Well, GE built 2 oil-fired steam turbine-electrics for testing on UP in 1939 with a 2-C+C-2 wheel arrangement. They were returned to GE and scrapped during WWII.

Baldwin built 3 coal-fired steam turbine-electrics for C&O in 1947-1948 with a wheel arrangement of 2-C1+2C1-B. They were intended for the Chessie streamliner from Washington and Newport News to Cincinnati. The train did not go into service and the locomorives were scrapped in 1950.

Baldwin built one coal-fired steam turbine-electric for N&W in 1954 as N&W 2300 with a C+C-C+C wheel arrangement for freight service. Named Jawn Henry, it was retired in 1958 before many of N&W's reciprocating steam locomotives. (Actually before some of PRR's I1sa 2-10-0's of 1923)

London Midland and Scottish (LMS) 6202 Turbomotive was built in 1935 with a direct-drive turbine, along with LMS' Princess Royal clsss reciprocating 4-6-2's. It was successful and ran until 1949 when the turbine failed. It was rebuilt as a reciprocating engine and reentered service in 1952 as BR 46202 Princess Anne, but was wrecked two months later and scrapped.

PRR S2 6200 was a coal-fired reduction gear drive turbine. My mom's boss was riding PRR Eastward from Chicago one day and noticed at dinner that the diner was riding roughly. He mentioned it to the Steward who said he'd find out. Next morning at breakfast the Steward told him they were testing the "turbine engine" and were doing 117 mph. (it was all jointed rail then)

I don't think the V1 project led to an actual locomotive; instead PRR built the S2. I do note PRR got interested in a turbine design about when US War Shipping Administration replaced the reciprocating Liberty Ship design with the turbine-reduction gear Victory Ship design that was much faster.

Phil Mulligan

I also remember the PRR being presented with a 4-8-4 or 4-4-4-6 or 4-6-6-4 locomotive by Baldwin before the S1's conception. I wonder if any sketch-ups of those were ever made.