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 Post subject: Railcar Propane Tanks
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 1:23 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2530
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
Years ago, some railroads used propane-powered caboose generators, with a tank mounted under the car.

What would be a source for similar tanks, "rail transportation grade"? Not looking for RV tanks, old Waukesha Ice Engine tanks, forklift tanks, etc.

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: Railcar Propane Tanks
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:39 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 1773
Location: New Franklin, OH
Howard - just curious but are you looking for one large tank or a group of smaller ones? I ask as our #330 was built with a propane system. It still has the steel, three bottle box hung from the frame with aluminum racks that held the bottles in place. Long gone are the cast aluminum hinged covers (non-sparking), one at each bottle. I’d guess that the bottles may have been about the size of a steel 40 pounder. Nowadays, you’re probably looking at commercial aluminum tanks for the multiple bottle setup. I think you might be limited to a steel tank for one larger one.

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 Post subject: Re: Railcar Propane Tanks
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:35 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2530
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
This is what I have in mind:

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A large, non-removable, heavy-duty tank. Anyone have any information or recommendations?

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: Railcar Propane Tanks
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:21 am 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:22 am
Posts: 548
First thing that comes to mind would be a semi-trailer reefer propane tank.

I have only seen one passenger car with a permanent propane tank and that
was a Canadian car.

-Hudson


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 Post subject: Re: Railcar Propane Tanks
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:25 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 1192
Location: Leicester, MA.
Howard P. wrote:
This is what I have in mind:

Attachment:
IMG_1427 (Small).jpg


Attachment:
1193756099_77af91cb27_b (Small).jpg


A large, non-removable, heavy-duty tank. Anyone have any information or recommendations?

Howard P.


My thought would be to contact a propane company. Dileo Gas is up near me, they might be a good source of information and usually when I have a customer with propane questions I refer them to Dileo. If I knew more about propane tanks other than it's a propane tank I could offer more. My only question is how common propane tanks like this are anymore? I don't see many trucks that come through my office that use propane for stuff on the truck itself.

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 Post subject: Re: Railcar Propane Tanks
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:27 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Northern Illinois
The Waukesha multi bottle gas lockers were designed for bottles that would be removed from the car for filling and had to be light enough for manual handling. That doesn't make a lot of sense these days when you can get propane delivered via truck most anywhere. I second the idea that tanks rated for use on highway trailers should be good, UNLESS the FRA has a more stringent specification, which is, I think, the original question.

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 Post subject: Re: Railcar Propane Tanks
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:51 pm 

Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:41 am
Posts: 138
The propane tanks pictured provided fuel for the caboose stove and a propane-powered refrigerator. Generator was belt-driven off an axle, at least on the car I'm familiar with.


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 Post subject: Re: Railcar Propane Tanks
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 3:52 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 1:02 pm
Posts: 128
Location: Mi
The UP had a conversion on some of there diners the was a 500gallon tank that replaced the bank of railroad grade 100# cylinders that car was built with. I have seen a couple after removal and they were very heavily constructed and by no means light.

You will need to work with your propane supplier but you will end up working with their suppliers to find a suitable tank. Don't be surprised if you strike out or at the costs for a one off custom tank.


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 Post subject: Re: Railcar Propane Tanks
PostPosted: Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:17 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2279
HudsonL wrote:
First thing that comes to mind would be a semi-trailer reefer propane tank.

I drove a semi pulling a reefer for six months a few years back and I have never seen one that doesn't run on diesel. Propane would be hard to find on the road and you want to fill the tank every day when in use so it wouldn't be practical. When you get fuel at a truckstop one of the ten or so things the pump asks you is if you want reefer fuel. After you put the hoses back on the pumps after getting tractor fuel, if you answered yes it will tell you to pull forward and get reefer fuel and the pump stays on. A lot easier than tracking down propane every single night wherever you are.


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 Post subject: Re: Railcar Propane Tanks
PostPosted: Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:57 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:25 pm
Posts: 485
This becomes a bit of a mess quickly. I think this topic came up before on RYPN.

Tanks filled with LPG (Liquefied Propane Gas) come under a couple of jurisdictions.

The "little" Bernzomatic (tm) (~ 1 lb) consumer tanks are somewhat unregulated, except the uniform fire code limits how many you should have in retail establishments, but this is rarely enforced.

The 20 lb "gas grill" tanks that you exchange at your local store are covered under US DOT restrictions and most local fire code restrictions. The DOT part is about how rugged they are to survive transport accidents. The fire code regulations are about how many you can have inside a large "big box" store to keep the structure safe. And the fire code part is also about letting the first responders know whats inside the building (the little color coded diamond thing near the entrance door).

And there is another standard for appliances that use LPG from "consumer" tanks. That defines all the connectors/hoses/overfill devices between the tank and your gas grill.

Other large "RV" or "Forklift" tanks fall under DOT regulations about how strong the structure of the tank is. Mostly about how "survivable" the tanks would be in a crash.

And then you get to the "big" mini submarine tanks (400-500 gallons) that are widely used at residences in rural areas (my house has one). These probably have the most destructive potential of any of the tanks, but they are not DOT regulated since they are not intended to be moved/transported when filled with LPG. An empty tank is installed at a residence then the LPG company fills it with LPG from a truck and the tank never moves (except in case of an earthquake or flood). These are ASME certified as "non-fired pressure vessels". The LPG delivery company buys these as "certified tanks" and points to the ASME certificate to show they are safe.

Since the use of LPG tanks on railroad equipment was a very small subset of all the LPG storage systems out there I suspect the FRA never got around to making up any "special" RR only propane storage tank requirements for LPG that was intended to be consumed by RR equipment (Cabooses).

The DOT requirements for transport of LPG extend from the 20 lb "home gas grill tank" to the big LPG tank cars in RR transport of LPG (not consumption of LPG).

I would think that the current DOT requirements for 50/100 pound RV/Forklift "DOT" LPG tanks to power mobile equipment like a Caboose are probably the best guideline to follow.

Good luck, and don't light a match if you smell propane...


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 Post subject: Re: Railcar Propane Tanks
PostPosted: Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:44 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:32 pm
Posts: 344
Milwaukee/Soo 5001 caboose at the IRM has a propane locker slung below the frame. I'm not that familiar with propane, but the bottles seem to be of a standard size.

Link to a photo here.
https://www.irm.org/gallery/MILWX5001/aai


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 Post subject: Re: Railcar Propane Tanks
PostPosted: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:47 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:29 am
Posts: 318
We had a Doodlebug that used propane for heating, it used a standard RV set up, which was actually a smaller tank than one for a gas grill...
The FRA never had any issues with it and the main downside, aside from capacity being a bit small for colder areas, was the fact that even with a truck coming to fill our tank, it would have been easier and simpler to just swap a standard 20 lb bottle when empty....


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