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 Post subject: Choice of steam oil
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 7:25 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2758
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
How do you choose steam oil? Is there a big difference?

Right now, we plan to stock two different oils, because we have a saturated engine coming into service in 2022. But we also have two different servicing locations, so that means stocking two different inventories at two different locations. Is this really necessary? If we have oil satisfactory for our superheated engines, can we just use the same oil for the saturated engine?


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File comment: This is our saturated oil
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File comment: This is our superheated oil
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Steven Harrod
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 Post subject: Re: Choice of steam oil
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 8:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6399
Location: southeastern USA
I would be concerned about using oil for saturated steam in a superheated engine but less concerned about going the other way. Bill Pettijean was the tribology guru in the industry and blended his own brand of steam oil - Green Velvet - in different formulations for both. I don't know if his products are still available but I found them more than satisfactory. He may not have a Danish distributor....... but as commercial refineries make less specific varieties of oils opting for multipurpose blends I'd want to be very careful about a decision.

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 Post subject: Re: Choice of steam oil
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:22 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:06 am
Posts: 329
softwerkslex wrote:
... If we have oil satisfactory for our superheated engines, can we just use the same oil for the saturated engine?

The short answer I have universally heard is no. The reasoning is the lower temperature of the saturated steam will not properly disperse the oil and it won't be as readily carried to all the devices needing lubrication............mld


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 Post subject: Re: Choice of steam oil
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 9:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:04 pm
Posts: 12
Bill Pettijean's formulas live on and are manufactured and distributed by Brennan Oil Company of Durango, Colorado. They will ship overseas as far as I know, or at least I know they have to the UK. They can be found online and are great to work with. You can probably guess why an oil company in Durango, CO manufactures and distributes steam oil.
Sapona Min steam oil, for superheated steam and PB&J 1000 are the two major blends.


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 Post subject: Re: Choice of steam oil
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:46 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
No website for Brennan Oil Co. No mention of offering steam oil anywhere. If they want to sell that product, they might consider marketing it.

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 Post subject: Re: Choice of steam oil
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 11:22 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
Posts: 2329
Location: The Atlantic Coast Line
Facebook site: https://www.facebook.com/Brennanstations/
I sent a FB message to see what I can learn.

Wesley


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 Post subject: Re: Choice of steam oil
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:34 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:04 pm
Posts: 12
Brennan's is a family run small business, and they at one time did have a website. Their bulk oil facility phone number is 970 247-3054. Kegan Brennan is who typically handles all the steam oils.
Hope that helps.
Randy


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 Post subject: Re: Choice of steam oil
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:36 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2560
Location: Strasburg, PA
softwerkslex wrote:
How do you choose steam oil? Is there a big difference?

Right now, we plan to stock two different oils, because we have a saturated engine coming into service in 2022. But we also have two different servicing locations, so that means stocking two different inventories at two different locations. Is this really necessary? If we have oil satisfactory for our superheated engines, can we just use the same oil for the saturated engine?
Strasburg Rail Road has always used the same oil for both saturated and superheated service with no issues. Green Velvet is the only oil to use. Choose the viscosity based on how high the superheat is, combined with how hard you work your engines.

Regarding oil from the major oil companies, back in the day, they made true steam oil that was also useful in large gearboxes. As time has progressed, their formulations have shifted to where now what they make is gearbox oil that can also be used in steam engines, but its suitability for steam engines is definitely a low priority.

Strasburg Rail Road used to use Mobil “Extra Hecla”. One day shortly after switching to a fresh barrel, one of our engines radioed in that their cylinders were groaning. Thinking that perhaps they had worked some water, we told them to hand crank the lubricator to establish the oil film and didn’t think too much about it. Then about twenty minutes later, the other engine radioed in that their engine was groaning as well. Oh boy! Here we were on a busy summer day with a fresh barrel of worthless steam oil! Not something that you just run out to the hardware store to buy! We then went on a crash course about steam oil. A drop of the bad oil on a hot piston rod, instead of spreading out and knitting with the steel of the rod, would form a ball and roll off onto the ground. Mobil was no help at all. They tested the oil from the barrel, and stated that while it was near one end of the tolerance for its recipe, it was still within tolerance, and so they weren’t inclined to replace it. As I said, their main concern was that it worked well for gearboxes.

We eventually landed on Green Velvet and never looked back, not only for steam oil, but also the PB&J oil for lubricating the machinery. The difference is that Green Velvet oils use the old recipes and put the priority on being ideal for steam engines, with no additives for modern applications. #89 has a manual Johnson bar. When running, you could adjust the cutoff with one hand, but you had to work at it. After the switch to Green Velvet, cutoff could be adjusted with a thumb and forefinger on the Johnson bar. The difference was night and day. #475's Roanoke cast cylinders are cast in very soft iron. Initially the wear on the cylinder bore was excessive. After switching to Green Velvet, wear in the cylinder bores has dropped to a nominal amount.

Rick Rowlands wrote:
No website for Brennan Oil Co. No mention of offering steam oil anywhere. If they want to sell that product, they might consider marketing it.
Yep. They seem to rely on word of mouth exclusively. It’s still good oil though.


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 Post subject: Re: Choice of steam oil
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:34 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2758
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Thanks so much. Will anyone dare say anything specific about the oil in the photos?

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 Post subject: Re: Choice of steam oil
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:53 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2279
softwerkslex wrote:
Thanks so much. Will anyone dare say anything specific about the oil in the photos?

This is not useful at all, but I was curious that Gulf Oil was still being sold as they disappeared in the 1980s (growing up in the early seventies my tiny little town had a Gulf station), I found out that in Europe Gulf Oil products are licensed to this group: https://www.hindujagroup.com/ Gulf Oil was one of the so-called Seven Sisters oil companies, and is the origin of the Mellon family fortune, including Mellon Bank and the current Pan-Am Railroad.


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 Post subject: Re: Choice of steam oil
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 8:05 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6399
Location: southeastern USA
Never seen them in use in the USA and know nothing about them.

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 Post subject: Re: Choice of steam oil
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 9:45 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 1773
Location: New Franklin, OH
Isn’t Brennan’s the main distributor of Green Velvet?

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 Post subject: Re: Choice of steam oil
PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2021 12:57 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:11 am
Posts: 34
Location: Denver,CO
jayrod wrote:
Isn’t Brennan’s the main distributor of Green Velvet?


Yes. Best stuff I have ever used. We use the Sapona med 680 and PBJ at the Colorado railroad museum.


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