I heartily second Scranton Yard's motion that we steam lovers devote our energies to places that are properly run and where our input can truly make a difference.

Scranton has shown us all over 26 plus years exactly what it is and to waste any valuable time/effort on a place that isn't going to change is the classical definition of insanity.

IMHO-Ross Rowland

The federal spending began in 1986, although SNHS was not official until 1995, if I remember correctly.

I'm sure that cloud will come around someday, just keep yelling.

Given the simple directness of your message and the repetitive nature of your posts, one could conclude that you are the person yelling at a cloud. A different cloud, perhaps, but a cloud nevertheless.

Pot kettle black much?

Not that I am ungrateful that you continue to bring this thread back to the top of the list every time you post. Much obliged.

Please do not disparage "Scranton" generically. Steamtown is Steamtown.

The Electric City Trolley Museum is open and operating four trolley trips a day every Thursday through Sunday until October 31. [October 23 will have a special schedule] The Museum itself will be open all year.

Our shop is on County land at the upper end of the line at the ballpark in Moosic.

https://www.ectma.org/

Phil Mulligan

Sorry Mr. Berry. My apologies for lumping in the very commendable work of the trolley enterprise with the sad story that we know as Steamtown.

I'll try hard not to repeat that mistake. Ross Rowland

@co614, @ EJ Berry
The ECTM is the crown jewel of Scranton-perhaps the only one. It’s well thought out and well put together in service of its mission.

@ScrantonYard

"As for Conway, she was never supposed to be around for a while. Anyone with half a brain that was involved in the hiring process knew that she was given a checklist of benchmarks and that, once accomplished, she was moving on up and out."

If you are telling me finishing up the interminably long 26 restoration, getting a friends group together and scrapping some stuff that was too far gone merits a promotion then it explains much. When she said that her initial estimate of a three to five year turn around was being revised to seven to nine-and that time period just about matched her remaining time before retirement eligibility, it was obvious that she saw the enormity of the task at hand and the impediments and would be looking for the EXIT sign.

“One of those "to do" items was establishing a "friends of" group. We had been working with Kip on an ambitious plan for that when we were shut down. She had two choices - try to make a deal with us or work with your group. “

Well, that’s interesting. Kip had always rebuffed the late Mr. Shore’s overtures with regards to establishing a friend’s group. We always speculated that he was made aware that there was a mutiny on the Steamtown Volunteer Association, and then having deposed the SVA President, the mutineer set his sights then Superintendent Gess.

It was rumored that Gess was told “get control of your park”. In any case, shortly thereafter, the SVA was dissolved, the bookstore’s operations were transferred to Eastern National and the Steamtown Museum Association was formed. Along with the Valley Locomotive Restorations/759 fiasco, I would have understood his reticence in creating another platform for vigilantism.

I was unaware he was entertaining other ideas.

“We had been through enough with the Park Service so that we came to the table with a set of expectations on how we wanted to do business within the confines of the restrictive Park Service system. Your group was more accommodating/eager to get it done. So she worked with you and stopped returning our calls, leaving us in limbo for a while to keep us on the back burner in the event your deal did not go through. We had an exchange on this board about this a while back. You getting it now?”

Eager yes, but I’m not sure we were accommodating enough (and by accommodating, I mean supine). I think she imagined that the Board would meet with her at the beginning of the fiscal year, she’d present a wish list and we’d happily supply signed checks without question. We told her flatly that wouldn’t work-that there’d have to be some sort of input to maintain enthusiasm. She verbally agreed to what I'll call targets of opportunity as a part of the deal, but only occasionally. Neither of us was around long enough to test that in operation.

We also had a discussion post her “three or four engines” , where we opined that in the current and foreseeable future 25 to 30 mph would be the likely top operating speed, so restoring a freight engine (ICC 790) made more sense since it was designed for those sort of speeds. It was clear nobody had framed the criteria like that inside the NPS and I'm not sure she was comforted by realizing we knew more than "professionals".

I’m definitely getting a sense that she doesn’t communicate with people or groups when she’s lost interest in engagement-and so I wouldn’t expect much in the way of communication if the NPS ultimately decides or has decided to end the relationship with the Lackawanna and Wyoming Valley Chapter.

I think this is enough catharsis for a while, we'll see what ultimately happens over time. When Mad Magazine had a TV Show, it had a bit about video dating called Lowered Expectations".

In summary. I think lowered expectations are in order. There was a critical window that was open five to ten years ago which was in part derailed by Kip's death. We're now in the event horizon.

I'll be looking to donate to 113, 5500 and 1361.

What's frustrating about Steamtown, and why it seems to be one of preservation's favorite topics, is that it literally has every advantage - many great locos and rolling stock already on site, guaranteed millions in funding every year no matter how many people walk through the gate, paid staff, dedicated volunteers, a well equipped back shop, and access to both major highways AND an active rail line.

Think of how many other preservation projects have succeeded with basically nothing. Think of how many other projects would be finished now if provided with the same opportunities. Meanwhile, the feds in Scranton go out of their way to NOT accomplish anything.

Ol' SNHS - she's broken more hearts than a prom queen.

I love steam

FYI: Simply capitalizing a word does not make it accurate.

FYI: Simply capitalizing a word does not make it accurate.

Nobody said it did. If you smell fish, it's Clupea Rubens.

So let's talk evidence:

Do you think, that tracking all social media and internet is the effective use of one's time when confronted with novel and complex issues when the individual has no prior experience with such matters and your immediate predecessor publicly admitted there were significant needs for improvement in the facility?

Of course we can ask does confusing the posting date (September 2018) and the proposed gathering date (September 2020) in an attempt to demand a permit from people were trying to make each other's potential presence known-so they could bend an elbow offsite dispute the assertions of inadequacy?

Not everything known can be presented here-there are people who are not in a position to test the threats to their employment.

By the way, "Ms. Seaboldt" a longtime Stea employee- and was the Super's assistant at least as far back as under Conway- now elsewhere.

Ms. Weinman, who was the head of maintenance -now elsewhere.

Got it yet?

Is any of it official? That would make for an interesting RTK request.

Six million per year is appox. 16,000/day; what could they possibly be doing with this much??

The state of West Virginia turned over the operation of Cass to a private operator; the Durbin Group; you'd be hard pressed to get a ticket now the ridership is so high and things appear to be running smooth.

And then there's what happened at Mt Rainier Scenic when they went from a volunteer group to a private operator.
Now there is a tale of woe.

I think it's competence that matters, not whether it is a public or private agency that runs the railroad.