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 Post subject: Re: PRR 5550 Update: Boiler Assembly
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2022 8:57 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11481
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
choodude wrote:
Sometimes I get the impression that a person has not even read the previous posts in the same thread they are commenting on before they open up with both revolvers blazing away.


Over six months ago:

ted101 wrote:
I attended their open House last year and the speaker was asked about Pueblo Test Track and he said they have already been in contact with the Test Engineers about requirements. It was determined they meet current requirements as designed. They also said they have a sponsor to cover the $250,000 testing fee plus transportation to/from Colorado. They are willing to go on a flat car if running under their own power is not an option.


Show me the money and a contract. And either would, of course, be premature just now.
This is not being "negative"; this is simply being skeptical.

Ross Rowland had "sponsors" lined up for the ACE 3000, remember.........
We had a UP Big Boy tour planned by UP this year.......
I will fully understand and sympathize with the desire of such a supposed sponsor to stay low-key or "hidden." But until the wire payment or whatever is made, skeptics gotta skeptic.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 5550 Update: Boiler Assembly
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2022 9:53 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1398
Location: Philadelphia, PA
As to being towed (or running under steam) through Penn Station NY, the first 52 T1's were 15' 6" high while Penn Station and the tubes were then 15' 0" and are now 14' 10."

So 5550 will not clear Penn Station and the tubes.

An M1 can't go thru PSNY for the same reason.

As to the story of a T1 crew being sent to see the boss at Ft. Wayne after letting a T1 have its way, that was fireman John Crosby in a Trainsmag story. Crosby said the speedometer was pegged at 120 so he didn't know how fast they were going except it was more than 120. I've heard the term "Flying Low" used on the Eastern Region too.

Crosby and his engineer had picked up a late train at Crestline and brought it into Ft. Wayne less late (the Post Office fines the RR if it is are late with the mail) so there was no discipline other than "don't do it again." They didn't. It was their last trip with a T1 and the EP20/EP22 units are geared for 98.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 5550 Update: Boiler Assembly
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 7:49 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:12 am
Posts: 569
Location: Somewhere off the coast of New England
co614 wrote:
Great progress !! Dream no small dreams as they fail to stir men's ( or woman's ) souls.

There will be plenty of places to run her when the time comes. I am submitting my name to be the engineer when she runs to break the steam locomotive speed record ( 127.5 mph) set in 1927 which won the Brits the coveted SST ( steam speed trophy) which they've held since then.

Let's shoot to make those runs in 2027 between Princeton Jct. and Trenton on the NEC. We can run the T-1 on # 2 main and have an Acela 2 consist on # 3 main and let them run a race against both the clock and each other on that Class 6 tangent track.

It will be quite the show. Can't wait.

Onward & upward. Ross Rowland.....hogger in waiting.
If you can pull it off I plan to be at my old spot (albeit about four feet higher) on the westbound platform at Princeton Junction with a camera...

I see some very interesting issues above and beyond simply obtaining Amtrak's (NOT NEW JERSEY TRANSIT'S) permission with running the tests between Trenton and New Brunswick.

The first and most obvious is the impact on scheduled trains. If history is our guide here this would restrict the testing to weekends and/or the middle of the night.

The second is that unlike every the vast majority of the tests conducted there in the days of the Office of High Speed Ground Transportation 5550 is not truly bi-directional and there is no remaining turning facility I can think of anywhere near New Brunswick. (Yes, I believe the Millham wye could be used on the Trenton end but the Kilmer Loop is long gone.) This means a reverse move either at restricted speed or being towed back as Amtrak has exactly zero experience with operating tender first and the Ts were not designed for high speed tender first operation. (Yes, I know who has operated 611 on a regular basis at that railroad in Pennsylvania but even its staunchest partisans will acknowledge that it is not the Northeast Corridor even if it can do emergency repairs to a GG1!)

The third is that as Amtrak, despite having no corporate experience with steam operation, does have a few senior operating people (as implied above) who are experienced with operating large steam locomotives so you may have to stand inline for that seat box.

GME
Who is now going to see if he can find film for an old Agfa 120 size camera he shot the Metroliner and Turbotrain tests with on some pleasant Sunday mornings in the sixties...

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 Post subject: Re: PRR 5550 Update: Boiler Assembly
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 10:40 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2560
Location: Strasburg, PA
co614 wrote:
There will be plenty of places to run her when the time comes.
No one ever mentions Cass, WV as a testing ground...


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 5550 Update: Boiler Assembly
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 10:43 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:54 pm
Posts: 199
Relevant to the discussion, track speeds on the NEC were officially raised to 150 most of the way between Hamilton and Jersey Ave today. Maybe in 5 years when the T1 is complete the management at Amtrak would be a bit more friendly to the idea. One can dream.

Testing at Pueblo has been a key point of why this thing should be made since day 1. If it didn't happen, I am certain that there would be plenty of very angry donors.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 5550 Update: Boiler Assembly
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 10:45 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
You know, I think Cass would make an excellent place for testing the T1. :-)

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 Post subject: Re: PRR 5550 Update: Boiler Assembly
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 2:53 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 2557
Location: Sackets Harbor, NY
Interesting points Trainlawyer. Firstly, there is some precedent in that Amtrak leased my steam locomotive ( C&O 614) in Jan. 1985 for 1 day for it to power the Cardinal from Huntington, W.Va. to Hinton, W.Va. as part of the ACE 3000 high speed coal locomotive trials.

Second, worst case we could run on to Philly and turn on the wye at Zoo interlocking, service the T1 ( coal/water/lube/inspect) then head back North for the second leg of the record runs.

No sense fretting over getting Amtrak on board now as the odds are there will be new decision makers there by game time.

I can sure see her racing past Princeton Jct. in both directions at 140 per. It will be quite the sight including on the 6 o'clock national news.

Onward & upward. Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 5550 Update: Boiler Assembly
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 4:54 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1398
Location: Philadelphia, PA
5550 would be tested with train including calibrated test cars so turning anywhere in NJ would be a hassle with the operating RR confined to 1 and 4 tracks. Testing would have to be at night as it currently is. I would test on one direction at a time and have a crewed ACS-64 on the hind end to simulate a heavier load, to contribute regenerative braking, and to tow the whole consist back to the starting point for the next test and to the layover point (probably Penn Coach Yard).

Testing in the other direction would be on a different day with the train turned at "ZOO."

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 5550 Update: Boiler Assembly
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 4:58 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:58 am
Posts: 250
Trainlawyer wrote:
The second is that unlike every the vast majority of the tests conducted there in the days of the Office of High Speed Ground Transportation 5550 is not truly bi-directional and there is no remaining turning facility I can think of anywhere near New Brunswick. (Yes, I believe the Millham wye could be used on the Trenton end but the Kilmer Loop is long gone.)


There is a wye at Lincoln Interlocking in Metuchin NJ. You would need a Conrail Shared Assets pilot for the move - as well as all the political negotiations one would expect from the owning railroad corporate office.

Brian


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 5550 Update: Boiler Assembly
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 6:02 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 1114
Location: B'more Maryland
Be careful, you guys could start a fire with all the friction you're generating on yourselves here...

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 Post subject: Re: PRR 5550 Update: Boiler Assembly
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 6:04 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:42 am
Posts: 68
Location: Either behind my desk or on my phone
Believe me Ross, He is going to fret far more about repairing the bellows on that camera and finding some film than about the very slight possibility that someone at Amtrak might exercise some creative thought.

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 Post subject: Re: PRR 5550 Update: Boiler Assembly
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 6:05 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:42 am
Posts: 68
Location: Either behind my desk or on my phone
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
Be careful, you guys could start a fire with all the friction you're generating on yourselves here...


Friction? The thing doesn't even have wheels under it yet...

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Meghan

Subscribing to my grandfather's philosophy that no case is so weak or cause so harebrained that somebody cannot be found to handle it in exchange for a sufficient retainer up front.


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 5550 Update: Boiler Assembly
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 6:10 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2560
Location: Strasburg, PA
Meghan wrote:
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
Be careful, you guys could start a fire with all the friction you're generating on yourselves here...

Friction? The thing doesn't even have wheels under it yet...
I don't think that is the kind friction he is talking about...


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 5550 Update: Boiler Assembly
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 11:19 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2022 10:21 am
Posts: 56
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Show me the money and a contract. And either would, of course, be premature just now.
This is not being "negative"; this is simply being skeptical.

Trains Mag just shared this article. Wonder how this affects their plans to run at TTCI.
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... KrZDCgugAY


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 Post subject: Re: PRR 5550 Update: Boiler Assembly
PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2022 11:42 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2021 6:54 pm
Posts: 199
RailMech3 wrote:
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Show me the money and a contract. And either would, of course, be premature just now.
This is not being "negative"; this is simply being skeptical.

Trains Mag just shared this article. Wonder how this affects their plans to run at TTCI.
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews ... KrZDCgugAY

Considering TTCI plans to build their own facilities nearby, probably not much.


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