Not uncommon for the top of the FTS to be in good condition when the bottom and ligament sections are in poor shape. I have been part of a couple partial replacements and the welding process is no different but the fitup is pretty particular.

To replace the entire sheet is exponentially more work with having to remove the steam pipes, superheater header, dry pipe, and all of the braces just to get to where the sheet can be removed. And as Dave said, the top portion of the front flue sheet is often in much better condition than the tube pack and bottom flange.

Another agreement with Dave and Kelly about the "smiley face" repair on the bottom of front flu sheets. Quite a few boilers I have been in have had identical repairs. The pitting and corrosion on the smokebox side usually has not only eaten the bottom of the sheet but the rivets as well. On the water side depending on many factors the pitting on the sheet and boiler course is often found too. Have seen a lot of cancerous pitting under the flu sheet into the boiler course that you don't find until you take that bottom part of the sheet out. Often the smiley face repair includes a 6" strip welded to the boiler course so the patch has something to rivet to. There is only so much pad welding allowed. Sometimes it is necessary to make the ugly go away.

And this is where good water tx, boiler wash outs, Ephexer coatings and general good PMS comes into play and pays dividends. So many old boilers were neglected in their end stage of life. So as mentioned now is the time to address the issues instead of just getting by with enough to satisfy minimum FRA requirements and have to deal with the issues next 1472.

Any comments on wash out plugs on bottom of flu sheets? I may have missed them here on #16? But I know they can be real bugger to get at during a boiler wash. I was not involved with the boiler work done to Mid Continents WC&C #1 but saw first hand the damage from scale and pitting the whole length of the boilers barrel. Distancing from the front flu sheet some. But the link to pitting and corrosion is part of this repair.

Regards, John.

Yes they are. Also to repair the threads, etc..... most practical washout plugs for that area come up from the belly a few inches back of the FTS. No need to take out the front end hardware to get to what is most likely to be very hard to deal with when you get to it after a half a day of work......

Yep, we have replaced several front tube sheets where the old one had that plug, and the owner wanted it in the new sheet. In some cases, some explanation was needed to educate the owner that no, you really don't want to have a plug there.

BTW, has anyone seen one of those plugs in the front tube sheet on any engine much newer than this one? I'm under the impression that they went out of style circa 1920.

Thanks again Dave and Kelly for your input about front tube sheet plugs. That would make sense as your curved wash out tool could get in there easily from behind the sheet rather then in front in tight quarters. There had been some discussions on CN&W #1385s newly built boiler which to my understanding the new boiler did not have them installed on front flu sheet? Not involved with that project but I presume the belly plugs were installed at build? MC had input from some good people before contractor built the boiler.

In about 1972 or 73 the MC locomotive WC&C #1 had been brought back into operation and was not steaming well. If I recall Rudy Flugel told us it was foaming bad and he knew boiler needed to be washed out. So the daily fireman Mike Armstrong and I were students of Rudy to "how to washout a boiler". Mike and I were probably 17-18 yrs old at the time and learning. We took out the washout plugs that were visible and Rudy was in charge of us yahoos. We got literally hundreds of pounds of flaky scale and had to keep poking the firebox/mud ring washout plug holes to keep them from plugging shut with scale. I do not remember seeing or knowing about belly plugs at that time? Was a long time ago already. We finally got the firebox relatively clean and the boiler steamed good for years after. Then in the early 2000s and I was not there to witness the act, but the original tubes were removed. What the shop guys found was scale built up half way up the tube bundle packed in tight. I wish I had pictures of this. The deep pitting from the internal scale was so bad the decision was made to section the barrel courses 1/3 to 1/2 around. I recall us washing out the boiler for the first time after running a short while but never knowing about or seeing the belly plugs {as mentioned by Dave/Kelly? No doubt this locomotive was run hard put away wet before the new owners bought it and brought it to MC for restoration to service. The overall condition of the locomotive matched the boiler condition. After seeing the destruction from the scale in the form of deep pitting internally I got a first hand view of the importance of water tx and PMS. I think the damage was probably already on its way before the owners brought that loco back to service. Don't ever want to see that kind of damage again or the approach to repair. Hindsight is 20/20 but you can learn from your mistakes. This most awesome locomotive sits in pcs after the failed restoration efforts ended.

For the armchair railfans who might be tempted to criticize and some of it may be warranted, the mistakes made in the failed restoration attempts were being made all over the country at the time. The then new FRA regs were not understood or followed by many museums and many museums kept trying to do things "their way" and basically ignore the facts that the rules had changed and yes it did apply to them. It was sad to watch but many people stuck their heads in the sand and kept going. Hiring commercial boiler companies to do locomotive boiler repair was not acceptable, but people kept going with what did not pass muster. A learning curve that seemed to be repeated over and over again if you were watching and listening. The WC&C was a prime example of why the FRA rule changes were needed. Poor execution of repairs but they were certainly needed. Just a note, the shop guys at that time put their hearts and soul into doing what they thought was the right approach. It was not the guys on the floor who made decisions on how to proceed. They believed in what they were doing was right and correct. The road to hell is often paved with good intentions. A lot of money was wasted on unacceptable repairs. So go back and learn to how to avoid the damage in the first place and learn from your mistakes.

Again thanks Dave and Kelly for the info and thoughts on this flue sheet wash out plug question.

A couple things: taking something already worn and finishing using it up was SOP back in the 1960s - 70s since there were easily available not yet used up substitutions. Many of the remaining steam era railroaders came in at the end of steam / beginning of diesel when the railroads weren't interested in keeping steam running any longer than until the new diesels arrived, and taught the patchwork repair techniques in a lot of underfunded volunteer shops to us younger guys (at least we were back then.)

It was a very different world. Object lesson in opportunities becoming problems a half century later on with "collections" (never done to match a mission statement if any) needing rationalization badly and emotional unwillingness to stop acting like grabbing and keeping all you can without any reason apart from you can is a good idea and once obtained any object becomes sacred no matter how much further keeping and not maintaining it stretches limited resources.

Washouts - I had a repeating lower tube bundle ligament cracking problem in a consolidation that worked hard in tourist service. I could see through the water leg washout holes in the throat so I kept cleaning it out to no avail. After seasonal shutdown, cut out the bottom half of the RTS and saw the floor of the throat sheet water leg was higher inside than it was outside - a shelf of hard scale that took a long steel bar and hammer to remove had formed along a line of staybolts preventing circulation. That was a result of wrong water treatment which itself resulting from having the same person who consulted also sell us his products, so naturally any water issue resulted in buying more stuff to put more of in at every fill up. We paid a consultant who didn't sell chemicals and his advice not only prevented more problems and cut product purchasing substantially, but reduced scale at washouts from 30 gallons to 2.5 gallons and extended washouts from every 2 weeks to monthly. Avoid reliance on self interest of vendors.

A photo example of the poor condition of a lower front sheet being replaced several years ago during a 1,472.

I would like to re-enforce your comment regarding proper water treatment and conducting a thorough boiler wash. I have recently been involved with boiler inspections where large areas of scale, and in some areas, mud packing were found. Further investigation revealed lack of water treatment and, over time, the lack of training and oversight on how do conduct a complete boiler wash and inspection. In addition, due to personal changes and "practical drift" , the accepted practice of not removing the "belly" wash out plugs during some of the periodic inspections was also a contributing factor.

Is anybody using a little plumber's camera to poke around and look for scale?

Most FRA inspectors have a good quality borescope with a LED light that will allow inspection in all areas of a boiler. It also has recording capabilities and the image can be saved on a thumb drive. This scope/camera is used in addition to the expected interior inspection. Some owner/operators are seeing the value with these devices as they assist with providing a very thorough inspection.

MD Ramsey

Not only is it a good idea to have a belly plug near the FTS, but I like the way the Chinese put a third blowdown there as well. After all, the crud piles up in the mud ring or the bottom of the FTS. I've ordered this three blowdown arrangement for Audrey's new boiler --- has anybody else tried it ?