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| Author: | John T [ Wed Feb 24, 2021 7:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Film crew producing TV show about sunken train |
After a little pencil pushing it looks like the loco was moving at about 7000 feet per minuet when it hit bottom. |
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| Author: | Ron Travis [ Wed Feb 24, 2021 10:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Film crew producing TV show about sunken train |
John T wrote: After a little pencil pushing it looks like the loco was moving at about 7000 feet per minuet when it hit bottom. 79.5 mph? That seems like it would have demolished the locomotive if the bottom was hard, or buried it if the bottom was soft. |
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| Author: | Bob D. [ Thu Feb 25, 2021 12:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Film crew producing TV show about sunken train |
If it was falling thru the air maybe..... your not taking into account major hydrodynamic forces that are in play. I really don't think it sank with the speed of a sleek nuclear attack sub. The Titanic dropped 11,000 ft, your math would have that doing several hundred miles per hour. Its not easy to move thru water. |
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| Author: | RoyalwithCheese [ Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Film crew producing TV show about sunken train |
John T, I think your math is a little off. We’re straying off topic here, but my good friend has his Doctorate in Fluid Dynamics (how objects move through fluids) so I ran this by him. Basically you have 3 major factors at play; 1.Gravity 2. Buoyancy (the force of the water pushing back that is equal to the weight of displaced water compared to the volume displacement of the object (water weighs 62 pounds per cubic foot, if the sinking object is made of something that has a greater weight per cubic foot than 62 lbs, it will sink) 3. Hydrodynamic resistance (drag). The falling body will reach terminal velocity when buoyancy and drag are equal to the force of gravity. So...an M4g weighs in around 96 tons and we know the loco separated from the tender so we’ll say the loco weighs 75 tons (give or take) and a cubic foot of iron weighs in around 490 lbs. We know it’s at a depth of approximately 700 feet. I have no idea what the actual drag forces would be but let’s assume it took a header off the barge and was pointing nose down. So based on the approximate square footage of the front of the loco providing the majority of the drag and factoring in everything else, I’d roughly guesstimate it was travelling anywhere between 30-40 mph when it hit the bottom. Regardless of the bottom being soft, the results of a 75 ton semi hollow cylinder impacting an immovable object are not going to be pretty. Again folks, just my 2 cents YMMV, interesting question though. |
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| Author: | thebrantfordrailfan [ Wed Jun 02, 2021 12:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Film crew producing TV show about sunken train |
In terms of corrosion and rust, what can we expect with this engine? Being in freshwater and being that far down? I looked at the image of the rear of the tender and it appears the paint is intact, but the tender is covered in what looks like some kind of growth, can't quite tell if it's algae or seaweed, sediment. I'd love to see a picture of the locomotive itself, and can't seem to find one anywhere. If anyone who has the 1990s footage could take a screencap of the locomotive, that would be wonderful. |
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| Author: | SD70dude [ Wed Jun 02, 2021 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Film crew producing TV show about sunken train |
Here's a boxcar in shallower water in Slocan Lake: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=syqh1883Ivs And something else: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__3Zvkcbzvo |
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| Author: | thebrantfordrailfan [ Wed Jul 07, 2021 10:46 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Film crew producing TV show about sunken train |
Looks like there is now an official website for the project. Premiere date is December of this year. Grab the popcorn! Hogheadmedia.com |
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| Author: | j6677 [ Fri Apr 26, 2024 7:57 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Film crew producing TV show about sunken train |
Apologies in advance for dredging this thread up, but this documentary is now available to rent and/or purchase on streaming services (I watched it with Prime Video). It is titled "The Last Stop: Canada's Lost Locomotive." All in all a good production with plenty of suspense - the ROV footage is especially surprising! Most of the consist is upright and intact, albeit buried in silt, however brakeman Bill Chapman (the last surviving member of 3512's original crew) theorizes that the locomotive may have exploded on its way down. Give it a watch if you can! |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Fri Apr 26, 2024 10:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Film crew producing TV show about sunken train |
This was proposed about a decade back, meant to be a nationally televised adventure, with recovery and restoration as the principle goals. I'm going to check out the rov video, as previous still images promised a very solid 2-8-0, sitting in cold, fresh water, in total darkness. I suspect a boiler collapse, but we won't know until we take a look. Interesting, if nothing else! |
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| Author: | thebrantfordrailfan [ Fri Apr 26, 2024 11:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Film crew producing TV show about sunken train |
I'm wondering, what kind of condition does the locomotive appear to be in from the footage available, and what details of the engine itself are visible above the silt? Is she more or less upright and what kind of damage is present? |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Sat Apr 27, 2024 6:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Film crew producing TV show about sunken train |
I was not able to pull up anything of the film other than previews, which essentially said nothing. From what they did indicate, the last survivor of the accident was a 90 something man with speculation and little more. They reported the locomotive sits upright on her drivers. The old fellow thought the boiler exploded, but no proof was shown. There was a clip of a boxcar or caboose side, now these are wooden, and it looked like they were pulled out of the yard this morning. So...guessing alone, I'm going with the locomotive is in very, very, good condition with little deterioration beyond that which happened in the 1940's. I did see a television still of the Consolidation's front many years ago, and she looked fine at that time. This 700 feet down, total darkness, icy cold fresh water. Walt Disney should be so lucky. |
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| Author: | j6677 [ Sat Apr 27, 2024 9:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Film crew producing TV show about sunken train |
It should be up on most streaming services with the option to either rent or buy. I watched it using an Amazon Prime subscription however it appears to also be available on Youtube, Apple TV and Google Play. Here it is on Amazon: https://www.primevideo.com/detail/The-L ... XZZNDY1X0U The ROV footage shows the 3512 upside down in a crater, resting deep in the silt up to its frame and surrounded by debris. Unfortunately, there isn’t much to see that resembles a locomotive other than the pilot, which is shown for a few seconds before the crew has to untangle the ROV cable from the wreckage. The rest of the consist is in much better (and recognizable) condition. |
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| Author: | thebrantfordrailfan [ Mon Apr 29, 2024 5:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Film crew producing TV show about sunken train |
Although she landed upside down on her boiler, i wonder what condition her running gear would be in? I wonder if a recovery and restoration to operation is theoretically possible. I mean, steam locomotives have survived and been rebuilt from head on collisions (metal on metal at high speed) so i imagine that an engine falling through water and onto mud can't be nearly as bad. But who knows? I wonder if at the very least, the boiler (which was probably already damaged from the shock of the cold water) would have absorbed some of the impact and saved the frames and running gear from more damage. It would be quite the task to try to dig her out of the silt and then remove it from the lake. |
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| Author: | John T [ Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Film crew producing TV show about sunken train |
Rather than bother with this wreck at the bottom of a lake? The money would be better spent on the two locomotives at Fort Steele. |
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| Author: | Richard Glueck [ Tue Apr 30, 2024 8:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Film crew producing TV show about sunken train |
Yes, it can be recovered. Yes, it can be rebuilt. Yes, I'd love to see it. However, for what it would cost in total, you could rebuild almost any locomotive in North America and several of its sister locomotives. I hate to leave her where she lays, but there are much better candidates to restore. And she's not going anywhere. |
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