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 Post subject: Managing Challenges of "Landlocked" Tourist Railroads
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:10 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:32 pm
Posts: 118
Location: Toronto, Ontario
For those of you who work on "landlocked" railroads that are not connected to the general system or effectively "landlocked" due to operating on a different gauge for example, how do you manage this challenge? Clearly, bringing in new equipment by rail or offering freight service isn't available but are there advantages to being your own island? How do you work around not having direct access to rail service? Just seeking out the good points and tips on managing the difficulties from those who've experienced it. Thanks for any input.


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 Post subject: Re: Managing Challenges of "Landlocked" Tourist Railroads
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 10:08 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:05 pm
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The Northwest Ry Museum at Snoqualmie, WA has been landlocked since the mid-1970s. Everything has to be trucked in or out. So far this hasn't been a hinderance.


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 Post subject: Re: Managing Challenges of "Landlocked" Tourist Railroads
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:01 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:45 pm
Posts: 300
There are some challenges of being landlocked.

[1] Equipment - This can be the biggest challenge and cost. Depending upon the equipment, almost all tourist/museum railroads are essentially landlocked due to the issues involved with moving equipment. Those near good roads (with high and wide clearances) are easier to deal with. However, some have only rural roads with limited clearances that must be dealt with. What this means is that any equipment being moved in or out must be handled by the appropriate equipment and operators. The insurance and time involved are generally higher. Consolidating moves can help reduce the move-in and move-out costs.

[2] Regulations - Not being part of the General System of Railroad Transportation potentially reduces the number of Federal Railroad Administration regulations that are enforced upon the operation (although I encourage folks to comply anyway, in case of a court case where you have to show what standards you are complying with). However, in some cases as has been discussed elsewhere, this may open the operation up to state or local standards which may make less sense than those of the FRA. Being pro-active and staying ahead of the rules can help, and have them available.

[3] Other Revenues - With no connection to a common carrier, there is less opportunity for outside revenues like car storage and equipment repair. Some tourist/museum railroads make a great deal of revenue from car storage, and others do car repair for both freight railroads and other tourist railroads which move the equipment by rail.

[4] Railroad Relations - With no direct connections, it can be more of a challenge to build a relationship with common carrier railroads. For example, we've had a few cases where the connecting railroad quietly dropped off equipment and materials through the interchange track. This can be harder to do with no connection. However, some have told me that being totally disconnected makes them look less like competition and more like a charity that can be given items. However, it might take more work to not cause delays.

[5] Track Costs - More and more often, connecting tracks are being charged a fee to cover the inspection and maintenance costs. No track, no fees. A few tourist/museum railroads have track panels that can be installed and removed just for special interchange moves.

[6] Real Railroad vs. Amusement Railroad - For some (government and the public), being a landlocked operation makes you a theme park or amusement ride. This can impact your reputation, so be sure to look and act like a railroad if you are landlocked. This means having clear training, proper operating and maintenance rules, etc.

Just some basic thoughts and points from industry presentations....

Bart


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 Post subject: Re: Managing Challenges of "Landlocked" Tourist Railroads
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 12:14 pm 

Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:15 pm
Posts: 594
One goal in Britain for heritage railways is a mainline connection. That’s mostly due to the usefulness of being able to travel by train to get to the heritage railway (as fewer people have cars over there). Quite useful over there for commuters as well as shipping in equipment from other lines (as the roads over there are much tighter.

Thankfully for them, there have been some great success stories about railway lines that have extended from being essentially landlocked to finally after decades of trying connecting to the mainline system. And there are also many still to come.

Don’t know of many if any examples of that kind of stuff over in the states though. I know plenty of landlocked lines but not any that were formerly landlocked or have plans to not be landlocked.


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 Post subject: Re: Managing Challenges of "Landlocked" Tourist Railroads
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
Bartman-TN wrote:
Depending upon the equipment, almost all tourist/museum railroads are essentially landlocked due to the issues involved with moving equipment.
This is an excellent point, especially with the Class 1 reacting to friction bearings like a vampire reacts to a cross.
At the RR I volunteer at (or will, once we can run again due to the state restrictions for COVID), we are technically connected to the BNSF/UP/Amtk main, but the track between ours and there is owned by a switching operation that uses their former Milwaukee Road tracks for car storage. I couldn't imagine the number of car moves that'd have to be made to get anything from our tracks to the national rail net.
In my mind, that would probably mean anything in and out of our yard would have to come by truck. We're lucky as we're right next to I-5 and have an excellent flat spot if we need to do anything like that (just need some wheeled cranes).

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 Post subject: Re: Managing Challenges of "Landlocked" Tourist Railroads
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 11:03 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1730
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
When the Branford Electric Rwy. Ass'n. - Shore Line Trolley Museum lost its connection to the Connecticut Company (formerly owned by the New York, New Haven & Hartford RR), it also lost its electric power supply, and was not able to run the cars for a few years. Before that evil day, it was very easy to buy or rent a local trolley car and run it on its own wheels to the Museum. Out of town purchases could be shipped to and unloaded at the Connecticut Company's freight siding in New Haven for delivery as above to the Museum. The employee delivering a New York City purchase had the nerve to stop at a downtown corner and ask a traffic cop how to get to Times Square!


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 Post subject: Re: Managing Challenges of "Landlocked" Tourist Railroads
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:56 pm 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
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Location: Bucks County, PA
Steamguy73 wrote:
Thankfully for them, there have been some great success stories about railway lines that have extended from being essentially landlocked to finally after decades of trying connecting to the mainline system. And there are also many still to come.

Don’t know of many if any examples of that kind of stuff over in the states though. I know plenty of landlocked lines but not any that were formerly landlocked or have plans to not be landlocked.


Quite a number of land-locked railroads, which used to be connected to the "mainline" system over here in the states, are so far away from mainline connections, that it would take cubic dollars to relay miles upon miles of track to reach a main or connecting railroad. Then there are the inevitable "NIMBY's" who would oppose what is essentially constructing a new railroad through their backyard or property. All in all, stories of land-locked railroads reconnecting to a mainline here - not a common thing at all.

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 Post subject: Re: Managing Challenges of "Landlocked" Tourist Railroads
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:45 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
The vast majority of rail equipment that is ideal for tourist railroads would be prohibited from moving on its own wheels anyways, with other older diesels also effectively prohibited due to not having alignment control couplers. So really what is left that could move by rail? Some more modern passenger cars perhaps? Some freight cars?

We all unfortunately are connected to an industry that had found a way to make itself obsolete and nonessential. Imagine what could be done if mainline railroads actually believed in the services that they provide.

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 Post subject: Re: Managing Challenges of "Landlocked" Tourist Railroads
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:20 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1899
Location: Youngstown, OH
The one good thing about 24" gauge is that having a "connection" is not even something in our vocabulary. Everything is a "rubber interchange" and everything fits on standard semi trailers. I've already interchanged cars with three other 24" gauge railroads so far.

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 Post subject: Re: Managing Challenges of "Landlocked" Tourist Railroads
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 12:15 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:14 pm
Posts: 135
Just think of the strain that would be put on the shareholders if railroads.....you know, actually moved goods, and got paid for their services.


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 Post subject: Re: Managing Challenges of "Landlocked" Tourist Railroads
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 11:41 pm 

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:40 pm
Posts: 386
Location: San Francisco, CA
The Western Railway Museum moved a lot of street railway equipment by flat car to the museum in the early years. But none have arrived in recent years. A couple of weeks ago a truck brought a PCC from Lake Tahoe.

Believe it or not, there is a company that specializes in moving streetcars over the highways. The silk Road Transit brought us two LRVs up from San Diego. They move PCCs from Brookville Industries to San Francisco's F-Line.

The people who have done the most highway moves are the four Two-Foot museums in Maine. They move equipment all the time, sometimes with their own trucks. How about Alna, Maine to Springfield, Massachusetts!
Sometimes there are advantages to being the smallest narrow gauge that was a common carrier.

Ted Miles, WRM Member


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