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 Post subject: "Little Railways of Wales" In Jeopardy From COVID-19
PostPosted: Sun Nov 29, 2020 5:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Latest BBC News update:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-55043446

Quote:
It's a "microcosm of a horrendous year" which has seen some railways make people redundant and furlough most of their staff - while the hundreds of seasonal workers on those famous old lines haven't been needed.

Railways have been "propped up" by online donations, lottery grants or government help - but Welsh operators are frustrated as they say English railways can get more from the latest financial support than those in Wales.

Railways in England could apply for £1m as part of the UK Government's £1.57bn Cultural Recovery Fund, while some lines had almost £2m with extra arts assistance.

Operators in Wales say they could only bid for £150,000 in Welsh Government support although the government said the application process "welcomed funding requests of up to £500,000.

The Talyllyn Railway in Gwynedd, where Thomas' creator The Rev W Awdry was a volunteer guard when it opened as the world's first preserved railway in 1951, was "extremely grateful" for its £150,000 government grant.

But after losing £670,000 or 60% of their year-on-year revenue, Talyllyn's general manager Stuart Williams said: "I feel we would have got more generous Covid financial help if we were in England."


September update:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-54029559

See also from July:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-53614567


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 Post subject: Re: "Little Railways of Wales" In Jeopardy From COVID-19
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2020 3:32 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:28 am
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Location: Ipswich, UK
So far, the "magic money trees" of the Culture Recovery Fund and the National Lottery Heritage Fund have paid out something like £16 Million to preserved /heritage railway operations in the UK since the first "lockdown" happened here at the end of March.
It looks a huge amount of money when you first look at it, but the range of payments has varied considerably between operations - not necessarily in relation to their size - and that has been the biggest problem, as has been the variations between the Countries that make up the UK. Some operations have still actually received no support other than from public donations!
The smallest grant I could find to an individual operation was for £15.3K, whilst the largest was £1.9 Million, so you can see the range that we are talking about.
The Great Central in Leicestershire - hardly a minor player in the heritage scene here - actually had to appeal against being initially rejected by the NHLF and some months later they were awarded £250K from that fund. One does wonder what Political pressure was applied there behind the scenes...

The confusion as to whether lines in England can open for the lucrative Christmas market still continues, due to the lack of guidance from HM Government. They are supposed to be "clarifying" things in the next few days, before the new rules come in on Wednesday, but most people aren't holding much hope of that, given their performance to date......
Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland have their own sets of rules through devolved Government, just to confuse things in the Heritage sector further!

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 Post subject: Re: "Little Railways of Wales" In Jeopardy From COVID-19
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 1:24 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
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Location: Southern California
I have an email correspondent in England. He has been involved with the Welsh railways and also traveled the world seeking narrow gauge to photograph.

I shared the link to this thread and he had a problem getting in to the site. So I snipped images of the posts and sent those to him. This was his response to me.

Quote:
The gentleman from Ipswich is spot-on about the inadequacies of the British government’s response to Covid and making decisions at the last minute - often in response to criticism rather than being proactive. It’s not just the heritage railways which don’t know whether they will be open at, or before, Christmas. Restaurants, bars, cafes etc also do not know to what extent they can trade and for most it is now far too late to order in food and drink etc. He is probably also right that more generous grants are available in England, and this is mainly because the Welsh government has no tax-raising powers and so has to rely on funding from the central UK government, but they are often preoccupied with pleasing their own, mostly English, supporters and MPs (members of parliament) who constantly threaten to revolt and vote down their legislation unless the districts they represent receive preferential treatment when it comes to money and grants. They have very few MPs in Wales or Scotland.

That said, so far as railways are concerned most English heritage ones are standard gauge, mainline-type operations whose overheads are far greater than the little railways of Wales, and so need bigger grants. I know Stuart Williams at the Talyllyn from my efforts with my fundraising books. He is a good guy but is being a little naughty when he says that the railway has lost about £670,000 in income during the summer. That is true, but it is a loss of their gross income before expenses, most of which consist of wages, and to a lesser extent things like coal and the cost of maintaining locos during the season. It does not take account of the fact that the majority of their staff have been furloughed, that is to say laid off temporarily with the (UK) government paying most of their wages, and the furlough scheme is not due to end until next March, by which time the railway can reasonably hope to be able to reopen in time for Easter. The Talyllyn’s bank balance currently is about the same as it normally is at the end of the summer season, thanks to the grants and a very successful fundraising appeal, of which the contribution made by my fundraising books is just a tiny proportion! An interesting statistic for the Talyllyn is that they were able to reopen at the beginning of August, at the start of the main summer holiday season. They were only able to run their trains at two thirds capacity because if the need for social distancing, but actually the gross income per train was about 30% higher than in normal years, partly because the Welsh holiday resorts have had a record summer thanks to most British people taking holidays within the country instead of going overseas for their holidays, and partly because of a substantial change in their fares structure, which charged the same per compartment or seating bay irrespective of whether it contained a family of six people or just one passenger. In reality it was a disguised rise in fares, albeit one that discriminated against single travellers or husbands and wives travelling on their own without their children. I can’t speak for the other Welsh railways but suspect that much the same is true there.

Best wishes,

James

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 Post subject: Re: "Little Railways of Wales" In Jeopardy From COVID-19
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 9:54 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:28 am
Posts: 640
Location: Ipswich, UK
Well, it's in Wales, but it is Standard Gauge, and due to a combination of factors (not just COVID-19), the Llangollen Railway have announced the appointment of a Receiver today as they have a six figure debt (£350K) with zero chance of recovery.
Details on their website..

https://www.llangollen-railway.co.uk/

A grim day for UK preservation.

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 Post subject: Re: "Little Railways of Wales" In Jeopardy From COVID-19
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 4:40 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
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70000 wrote:
Well, it's in Wales, but it is Standard Gauge, and due to a combination of factors (not just COVID-19), the Llangollen Railway have announced the appointment of a Receiver today as they have a six figure debt (£350K) with zero chance of recovery.
Details on their website..

https://www.llangollen-railway.co.uk/

A grim day for UK preservation.


"The company’s accounts show pre-tax losses of £330,601 in 2018, £329,175 in 2019 and £258,804 in 2020 (pre-audit). A number of significant engineering contract disputes, all of which arose in the years prior to the current board taking over in October 2020, have crystallised in the last few days. The claims against the company are compelling and are in excess of £250,000 in total. There is no prospect of meeting these liabilities, even over an extended period."

It doesn't look like it was the pandemic that did them in, I wonder what is meant by "engineering contract disputes." They must have had a significant amount of cash on hand prior to 2018 to weather all those losses (around $1.3M) for as long as they did.


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 Post subject: Re: "Little Railways of Wales" In Jeopardy From COVID-19
PostPosted: Mon Mar 01, 2021 6:24 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
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Location: The Atlantic Coast Line
I enjoyed a footplate experience at Llangollen to many years ago. The layout was very mindful of Strasburg Rail Road.

But how could Llangollen go wrong with their ideas like this one? This conjures up scenes from Titfield Thunderbolt.

Seriously, I am sad to see Llangollen in receivership.

Attachment:
Gin Game SM.jpg
Gin Game SM.jpg [ 18.68 KiB | Viewed 5800 times ]


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 Post subject: Re: "Little Railways of Wales" In Jeopardy From COVID-19
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:47 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:28 am
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Location: Ipswich, UK
PMC wrote:
It doesn't look like it was the pandemic that did them in, I wonder what is meant by "engineering contract disputes." They must have had a significant amount of cash on hand prior to 2018 to weather all those losses (around $1.3M) for as long as they did.


The high-profile Contract problems concern work carried out on the LMS "Patriot" class 4-6-0 new-build loco and restoration work on the Scottish 4-4-0 "Morayshire", both of which have generated much discussion this side of the Atlantic.
The "Patriot" needed a significant amount done to repace/repair substandard work, which has delayed its completion by several years.
Plenty to read about it on the likes of https://www.national-preservation.com/ if you have several hours spare...

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 Post subject: Re: "Little Railways of Wales" In Jeopardy From COVID-19
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 5:14 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
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70000 wrote:
The "Patriot" needed a significant amount done to repace/repair substandard work, which has delayed its completion by several years.
Plenty to read about it on the likes of https://www.national-preservation.com/ if you have several hours spare...

Ah. (For those with time, do a search on the word "keyway", as in on the drivers, as far back as 2012 to find out one main problem, a violation of the admonition "measure twice, cut once"). Llangollen Railway seem only peripherally involved with LMS Patriot project, and not at all now, but I'm sure it wasted some time for them.

Here's an update on this locomotive from last fall: https://www.lms-patriot.org.uk/news/202 ... tober-2020


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 Post subject: Re: "Little Railways of Wales" In Jeopardy From COVID-19
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 8:34 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:28 am
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Location: Ipswich, UK
PMC wrote:
Ah. (For those with time, do a search on the word "keyway", as in on the drivers, as far back as 2012 to find out one main problem, a violation of the admonition "measure twice, cut once"). Llangollen Railway seem only peripherally involved with LMS Patriot project, and not at all now, but I'm sure it wasted some time for them.

Here's an update on this locomotive from last fall: https://www.lms-patriot.org.uk/news/202 ... tober-2020


Go back 3 or so years and the locomotive was actually supposed to be being fully assembled there, though work on various components was being done elsewhere before being transported to Llangollen. I think it's just over 2 years ago that things seriously started to go wrong with the project. The original intention was for it to be complete for November 2018, which was then revised to November last year when it was obvious that the November 18 date could not be met.
I must admit I've not been following the whole saga in detail, so can't list the number/type of components that have had to be remanufactured, but it has involved a lot of additional expense for the group and their supporters.

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 Post subject: Re: "Little Railways of Wales" In Jeopardy From COVID-19
PostPosted: Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:39 pm 

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70000 wrote:
I must admit I've not been following the whole saga in detail, so can't list the number/type of components that have had to be remanufactured, but it has involved a lot of additional expense for the group and their supporters.

A lot of the problems have compounded themselves, with the added time to fix problems leading to more problems, and with the people who originally did the work not around to supervise. For example, after they corrected the misplaced keyways on the drivers by filling them with welds somehow and machining a new keyway, and assembling the chassis, they had to move the chassis around for other work that was piling up, didn't realize that the driver boxes had never been lubricated and damaged them. Back to the drivers, they corrected that back in 2012, but then lost the paperwork/ documentation for the welds, the contractor had closed I believe, and so years later they had to remove the welds from the wrong keyway and do it over just so the documentation would be correct. They just recently had to replace the crankpins and one of the bogie/ pilot wheels for being out of spec, no way now to be compensated. Demoralizing for sure.


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 Post subject: Re: "Little Railways of Wales" In Jeopardy From COVID-19
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:16 am 

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A bit more promising news from the Llangollen Railway...

https://llanblogger.blogspot.com/2021/0 ... l?spref=fb

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 Post subject: Re: "Little Railways of Wales" In Jeopardy From COVID-19
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:29 am 

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I’ve been following “the C2 Project” for some time. This is a group that’s rebuilding a Chinese 0-8-0 for use on the Ffestiniog Railway. It’s a big project as the locomotive had to be re-gauged from 2’6” to 2’, which required the one-piece welded frame assembly to be cut apart, narrowed, and re-welded, among the other normal tasks of rebuilding a pretty clapped-out locomotive.

They post semi-monthly updates, and it’s been interesting to see how COVID has affected their progress. They’ve worked at their shop at the railway when possible, while members have worked on smaller projects at their homes when gatherings were not allowed. Of course, they haven’t posted an update in about 3 months so progress is difficult to gauge right now.

One of the biggest setbacks that was discovered recently is they won’t be able to use the existing boiler, despite it being in good condition, due to regulation and personnel changes in the UK. They had consulted the authorities years ago when the project began, and were confident the existing boiler would be granted an exception for operation. Unfortunately the boiler inspectors who advised them on that have all since retired and current inspectors say there’s no way. So the group is drafting plans for a new boiler and investigating potential suppliers.

Read more here: http://www.c2project.org/

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 Post subject: Re: "Little Railways of Wales" In Jeopardy From COVID-19
PostPosted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:51 pm 
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As much as I hope I'm wrong, I think the landscape of non-profits in a post-COVID world will look very different than they were in 2019 and earlier.
Several, including where I volunteer as a brakeman, got kneecapped by the pandemic for riders and revenue. We went through a shutdown right as we were hoping to get ready for Polar Express and lost a substantial amount of operating revenue.
To make up, we started running a month early and might get hit by another lockdown if things keep going state-wide as they have been (some counties are almost back to square one).
So many thought this thing would be done in two weeks. Then, the same assumed it'd clear up over summer. Then, the winter. By the start of this year, even the most 'stick your head in the sand' types knew this thing will be around.
With the vaccine problems getting out to the public, large percentages of the same public declaring they'll rely on others to provide the herd immunity (which cannot happen if the %s I'm reading are right) and people wallowing in ignorance and disinformation, it's going to be a while.
I'd hate for any of these Welsh railways (or anywhere else) packing it up due to the pandemic, but I expect this is going to happen.
Sure, governments can subsidize the non-profits for a while, but this is an ever-stretching rubber band that's gotta snap back sometime. When the dust finally settles (I'm betting on well into 2023, maybe further with the way things are going right now), you're just going to have fewer non-profits than you did, which isn't going to whip back anytime soon in an era where the governments are by them cutting back on all their pending to make up for pandemic spending.

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 Post subject: Re: "Little Railways of Wales" In Jeopardy From COVID-19
PostPosted: Thu Apr 29, 2021 1:40 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:28 am
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Location: Ipswich, UK
The next stage of reopenings here in the UK - which is the important one as far as a lot of preserved lines/museums are concerned - is from 17th May when indoor attractions can reopen.
Whilst some operations have already started running trains from the last stage (which was from 12th April), the May date is the key date for the rest to reopen, so it is going to be interesting to see what the visitor numbers are going to be once that happens. I think that there is a lot of pent-up demand out there from people who haven't really been able to do a great deal for the last 6 months who will want to get out again, particularly when there is still a big question mark about foreign travel/vacations for 2021.

I know I've got a list of places to visit once things reopen, some of which I haven't actually been to for over 30 years....

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