Hoping that this is an easy question:

Examining a Pullman Sleeper from Plan Series 3584 which the Pullman spec by my reading implies that there are two conductor valves and two signal valves. This car was converted twice and ended up in MOW service. I can't locate where the Conductor Valve (Brake) would be in the car.

I can see where the signal valves were located in the vestibules (and the retainer valve) and located where the signal pipe was removed along the length of the car, but the air brake line is continuous from one end of the car to the other end (except for the UC valve). I can find no locations where a branch would come off for the Conductor Valves and no location for the valves in the car.

The best that I have found for the valves is two ~3" holes on each end of the car currently covered with a circular wood disk with wires sticking out of the wood. These covered "holes" are located inside and high above the main car doors that enter from the vestibules. The circular wood covers are located on the hinge side of the door which if they were the original valve locations seems to put the conductor at risk of having a door smash the conductor against a wall, but they are up high so at least not likely to be accidentally pulled. The nearest hallway light per the plan is on the opposite wall that you see as you enter the car.

Other than that I can't find anything in the car or in the drawings/documents that I have. The spec says originally two "New York, type 114 S.C." valves in Paragraph 157 Titled "Conductors Cock or Valve". (Paragraph 160 says "Air Signal: two New York"). I'm expecting that the 1st one is the Conductors Valve and the second is the Signalling valve.

Anyone able to confirm or deny the location or suggest an alternative location for the conductor valve?

Not sure where the conductor valve lines would connect either.

Thank You for your thoughts

I would expect it was in the electric locker - in the corner where the outside wall and locker door hinge wall meet?

The conductor's valve would be inside the carbody, clearly visible to a passenger who might be called upon to use it. Usually they were on a bulkhead near or at the end of the car.

The APTA Standard for Conductor's Valve - New Passenger Cars includes "These valves shall also be accessible to passengers in the passenger compartment"

Phil Mulligan

Phil
In my Pullman the valve is in the electric locker with a slot in the wall for a lever and a cord to actuate the valve lever which ran above that AC control panel. And with a similar arrangement at the locker at the other end of the car
Paul Mulligan

Interesting.

It would be quieter in the car that way, but if you were dumping the air you'd think you want to make noise.

I think a DL&W MU trailer (ex-steam coach) had a similar arrangement with the valve in the toilet and a wood handle, cord and lever outside on the bulkhead. The cord looked as old as the car.

APTA doesn't allow cords on new construction but back then... But you need only one rotted cord to break and delay an emergency brake application.

Cuz Phil

I think the key is that the actual conductor's valve must be close to the part inside the carbody and accessible to the passengers. So if you find that assembly on a bulkhead, the actual valve is nearby inside the bulkhead.

Phil Mulligan

Got out to my car yesterday and snapped a picture of the conductor valve lever

Sure enough, I looked carefully and found those slots on both ends in the cabinets - I don't recall noticing one of the two previously but there were items in the way. Very nice to see the pulley in the picture posted by PRR 7099 earlier; much appreciated. It all became much clearer with that picture.

I opened both cabinets and found no piping unfortunately (also no pulleys outside, but holes where the screws had been), but did find a >1" diameter hole in the wall inside of both cabinets (see picture). I suspect the holes were associated with the conductor valve and somehow it appears that they managed to remove the pipes at both locations many years ago.

I am thinking that I can get a standard 3/8" steel pipe and fittings back into the opening and out the bottom of the car (also found a similar sized hole exiting beneath the car).

Is the air connection of the conductor valve made through the hole in the wall (see the picture) for the Pullman cars of this vintage? A related question (similar to comment by EJ Berry earlier in the thread), does the conductor valve just vent into the cabinets (I didn't find a clear indication of an exhaust pipe location in the cabinets)?

I have access to a B-3-B valve to use as a Conductor Valve and it seems that it will fit the slot just fine. Not sure if the recently posted picture was the New York 114 S.C. valve or something like the B-3-B, but I am thinking that I can make the appearance similar.

Thank You

I'm not up on heavyweight cars so much. I'm a lightweight car guy for the most part. Lightweight cars usually had one or two B-3-B valves inside the cars, which worked in conjunction with E-3 valves under the car. On such cars, the air vented out the bottom of the E-3 valves when the B-3-B was pulled to initiate an Emergency application. However, some pre-war lightweights (and even some post-war cars), and I think many heavyweights, had one or two B-3-A valves only (no E-3's), which vented the brake pipe air out the top of the B-3-A valve, inside whatever cabinet or ceiling panel was above the B-3-A valve. This is probably what your car had.

The conductor's valve was in a DL&W MU trailer that had been converted in 1930 from a DL&W "Boonton" steam coach. I'm sure the installation was typical of the heavyweight era.

It was mounted on the wall of the toilet with the pull handle, rope and lever in the passenger compartment and the valve proper inside the toilet comprtment, exhausting inside the compartment.

It makes sense to contain the exhaust from the trainline inside a locker or toilet. You're venting 70 to 110 psi of air.

Phil Mulligan

here is a photo in the electric cabinet - sorry for the cord in front of the valve in the picture

Steelgrinder - You need to do a bit more searching, under the car. Find out if the car has E-3 valves which would be piloted by the conductor's valve. I'm betting you will simply find a "T" in the brake pipe which is probably plugged. A B-3-B valve is used to pilot an E-3 valve which actually makes the emergency brake application by essentially opening a large hole (about 1") to rapidly deplete the brake pipe and trigger the emergency application. My memory of heavyweight cars -- and it has been years since I have done a brake job on one -- is that they used B-3-A or even 1" angle cocks and larger diameter pipes (1" ?) to connect the conductor's valve to the brake pipe. I am not at all sure that a B-3-B would provide for a sufficient volume of air to initiate an emergency brake application. You need a bit more research to safely connect the conductor's valve to the brake pipe. All you are doing is a cosmetic restoration on a display car, I guess it is another thing entirely. Still, even in a museum situation, sometimes cars are switch around and I have seen cars get away with someone frantically pulling on a conductor's valve and getting nothing...

Thank You All

Based on the picture from PRR7099 and the information from Catalpa I did some further investigation and found several useful things that hadn't been apparent before.

1) There is a hole suitable for 3/4" pipe in the floor of the cabinet where the Conductor Valve would go. This hole had been plugged with a large wooden dowel such that at first I thought it had always been there. The other hole higher up on the wall that goes into the exterior wall seems likely to be for the vent instead (I recall hearing a story about that on some cars but I don't recall the details with any certainty).

2) Based on input from Catalpa I looked closer one more time and discovered the Tee in the brake line that I had overlooked before. The Tee is located past the Center bowl but above the trucks. There is an oval opening in the two Center Beams to allow the pipe to pass through. The flash from the camera makes it easier to see in the photo. The Tee branch opening is at about a 45 degree incline (maybe less) to pass over what originally would have been the signal air line (at least it appears that way). All of these observations also help to support that the larger 3/4" valve and pipe is appropriate.

For reference for anyone else (on a 1920's era Pullman): I would estimate that the crossover point is about 11 feet behind the Conductor Valve on the car. The openings for the pipe in the beams are somewhat close to the floor that is above the beams (and the cross over is above the truck as well). It appears that there are some brackets to support the pipe in a few places under the floor and also one to stabilize the vertical run of pipe in the cabinets where the conductor valve is located.

Some work to do for sure but at least a clearer path to a solution. Much appreciation to everyone's contributions to the thread.