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A few questions http://rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=44829 |
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Author: | EJ Berry [ Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:30 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: A few questions |
All transcontinenta travel in the USA was accomplished by ues of connecting trains and there was never a through train from the East Coast to Los Angeles. There were through cars. In this case there was a connecting service shown in Table I of the Missouri Pacific timetable in the above posting. Through cars are shown on Page 7 of that timetable. In this case, 1959 connections show: Station Time Train Lv. Memphis 8.30 PM MP 201 Ar. Little Rock 11.30 PM MP 201 car switched from MP 201 to MP 1 Lv. Little Rock 12.25 AM MP 1 Texas Eagle Ar. Texarkana 3.25 AM MP 1 Texas Eagle Through train; change of railroads Lv. Texarkana 3.40 AM T&P 1 Texas Eagle Ar. Dallas 7.50 AM T&P 1 Texas Eagle Los Angeles car attached to T&P 1 Lv. Dallas 8.10 AM T&P 1 Texas Eagle Ar. Fort Worth 9.00 AM T&P 1 Texas Eagle Memphis car detached from T&P 1 Lv. Fort Worth 9.50 AM T&P 1 Texas Eagle Ar. El Paso 10.45 PM T&P 1 Texas Eagle Car switched from T&P 1 to SP 1 Lv. El Paso 12.50 AM SP 1 Sunset Ar. Los Angeles 5.35 PM SP 1 Sunset Through sleeping cars are from Memphis to Fort Worth and from Dallas to Los Angeles. The two cars are both in T&P 1 from Dallas to Fort Worth. With through sleeping cars, you can stay in your room in Little Rock, Texarkana and El Paso. You change cars during the station stop in either Dallas or Fort Worth. Phil Mulligan |
Author: | djl [ Sun Sep 13, 2020 1:18 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: A few questions |
I will study more that thing. But I wonder what rute was more scenic: the one via Kansas (with "Rock Island Line" taken from Kansas City, Missouri) or the one via Texas? Talking about "Rock Island Line", when I had a period of beeing mad after Rock'n'Roll and the '50's (that's why I know something about the period) there was the "Rock Island Line" song on that C.D. Dind't pay atention to the lyrics (I've listen the song no more then 3 times) and so for years I thought that the song was about a Rock'n'Roll ship or a ship that is going to an island named Rock Island. Talking about Black accomodation on trains: https://condrenrails.com/MRP/City-of-Me ... emphis.htm |
Author: | EJ Berry [ Sun Sep 13, 2020 10:18 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: A few questions |
You need a good USA map. Memphis to Los Angeles via Kansas City [there are two Kansas City's, one in Kansas and by far the larger in Missouri. Kansas City Union Station is in Missouri] is a longer, more circuitous route. Rock Island had a more direct Memphis-LA route. In August, 1959, CRI&P train 15 left Memphis 10.00 PM, arrived Tucumcari NM 9.30 PM the next day. This train had no sleeping or dining cars, but made meal stops at McAlester OK at 7.15 AM, El Reno OK from 11.40 AM to 12.10 PM and Amarillo TX from 6.40 PM to 7.10 PM. At Tucumcari, CRI&P 15 connected with SP 39 leaving 9.45 PM, arriving Los Angeles 11.39 PM the next day. This train also had no sleeping or dining cars and SP did not show specific meal stops, although 39 made a 15 minute stop at Lordsburg NM and 30 minute stops at Tucson and Phoenix AZ and a 25 minute stop at Yuma AZ. Neither the MP-T&P-SP nor CRI&P-SP route was particularly scenic. If you want scenery, the best is via Kansas City. From Memphis you would take Frisco (SLSF) 108, The Sunnyland, at 7.00 AM. There was a meal stop at Thayer, Ark. at 11.15 AM. This train had no sleeping or dining cars until picking up a Buffet-Parlor Car at Springfield at 3.25 PM. Arrival Kansas City MO was 8.45 PM. MP 11 left Kansas City at 9.10 PM arriving Pueblo CO at 7.10 AM. This train had standard sleeping cars plus a "Thrift-T-Sleeper," an old heavyweight Pullman with accommodations at a reduced sleeper fare and only a coach ticket. At Pueblo, D&RGW (Rio Grande) 1, Royal Gorge, left at 12.15 PM. Rio Grande called itself the "Scenic Line of the World," and this train is one of the reasons why. The train had a dome car and followed the Arkansas River as the surrounding terrain got higher and higher. Finally the gorge got too narrow to fit a railroad so the railroad goes on a bridge suspended over the river from the sides of the gorge. Just short of this, the train stopped for 10 minutes so passengers could get off and look. The train continued out of the gorge and passed by Colorado's highest mountains. It finally crossed Tennessee Pass at over 10,000 feet altitude and descended on a steep 3% grade to Minturn and the Eagle River. The train continued through Glenwood Canyon and terminated at Grand Junction. Through cars including a sleeper (Summer only), the dome coach and diner-lounge continued to Salt Lake City in D&RGW 7, arriving 8.00 AM. UP 5 left Salt Lake 9.30 AM with a cafe-lounge car and coaches. At Las Vegas, 8.05 PM, UP 5 set out the cafe-lounge and picked up a sleeper for Los Angeles, where it arrived at 5.30 AM (the sleeper could be occupied until 7.00 AM) Phil Mulligan |
Author: | PaulWWoodring [ Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:13 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: A few questions |
As for the photo, that is a set of EMD FT locomotives, and the unit behind them is just about certainly a steam generator car for the coaches. The first coach is a heavyweight, but it looks to be something other than a straight chair car, like possibly a sleeper/lounge of some arrangement. I really can't speak about pre-Amtrak passenger communication facilities, but I was working for Amtrak in the 80s and 90s when cell phone service took off in the U. S. You're referring to Amtrak's Railfone service, which started around 1990 (give or take a year). It was based on the new national cell phone network, which Amtrak sold rights for laying fiber optic cable along it's Northeast Corridor RoW to providers (I believe the late MCI was the first one). They converted storage space at one end of most cafe cars to make phone booths, and service was pretty good, although it dropped out going through every tunnel for awhile. It was cashless, requiring a credit card code to be entered to pay for a call. Although I don't know for sure, my guess would be that before the cell phone era, there was not time, or inclination on the part of the railroads, to bother hooking up phone lines at station stops for passengers. I think there were attempts on some roads for limited radio telephone service (I may have seen something like this in a historic RR PR film on YouTube in the last few years). Most probably, back then many stations had public pay phones on their platforms, and if a stop was long enough, a passenger or two might have had enough time to get off and make a quick call. I think it also might have been possible to give a message to a conductor to have a station agent send a telegram from a station stop. |
Author: | djl [ Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:35 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: A few questions |
I've seen at least 2 adds with phone on the train. But my Hard Disk broke so I can't browse the history to see what trains they where. Ha, I remember correctly that "Orinetal Limited" had: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oriental_ ... ephone.JPG No coin operated pay phones? "P.R.R." I think it used train phones for only the crews. I know that was and heavyweight car. But I was curios what it was. How many metric tons did car like that weighted? |
Author: | PaulWWoodring [ Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:19 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: A few questions |
Like I said, I think the first car of that train was probably a combined sleeper/lounge or parlor car of some kind, just from looking at the window layout. I have no idea what kind of sleeping space or lounge space might have been in that car. if a name was visible it might be traceable that way. As for weight of Pullman heavyweight cars, cars of that period usually had a poured concrete floor to give them more stability and a smoother ride. I think a car like that would have weighed about 80 to 100 U. S. short tons, or around 70 to 80 metric tons. They weren't called "heavyweights" for nothing. |
Author: | djl [ Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:25 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: A few questions |
Well, about 2 days ago I dreamed a passanger car that had probably some brick walls. But I never thaught they that put concerte on the base of the car. At 70 metric tons for sure they needed 6 axles. The only thing in Europe that gets close to a heavyweight car are the formes Soviet cars. 55-60 metric tons, but on 4 axles. Did any steel cars had those Gothic windows (like in the image with the phone from "Oriental Limited") or those cars where wood walls only? And I'm curios if there was a "Pullman" car for general use that had a bathtub or only the private cars had 'em? Here are some cars with bathtub: https://www.midcontinent.org/rollingsto ... _loco1.htm last image: https://www.midcontinent.org/rollingsto ... sscars.htm |
Author: | Dennis Storzek [ Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:34 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: A few questions |
PaulWWoodring wrote: Like I said, I think the first car of that train was probably a combined sleeper/lounge or parlor car of some kind, just from looking at the window layout. I have no idea what kind of sleeping space or lounge space might have been in that car. if a name was visible it might be traceable that way. I wonder if that isn't a business car that the railroad provided for the use of the photographer. |
Author: | Dennis Storzek [ Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:45 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: A few questions |
djl wrote: Well, about 2 days ago I dreamed a passanger car that had probably some brick walls. But I never thaught they that put concerte on the base of the car. At 70 metric tons for sure they needed 6 axles. The only thing in Europe that gets close to a heavyweight car are the formes Soviet cars. 55-60 metric tons, but on 4 axles. The "heavy poured concrete floors" is a myth. Most were less than two inches thick, supported by pressed steel sheets, the corrugations of which made at least half the area thinner. Concrete floors were actually more common in so called lightweight cars. Quote: Did any steel cars had those Gothic windows (like in the image with the phone from "Oriental Limited") or those cars where wood walls only? The "Gothic" styling was in vogue during the first two decades of the twentieth century, so yes, it did cross over from wood to steel car construction. In the 1920's it was considered dated, so most cars, both wood and steel, had the sash removed, or simply plated over. |
Author: | Alan Walker [ Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:55 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: A few questions |
Dennis Storzek wrote: The "heavy poured concrete floors" is a myth. Most were less than two inches thick, supported by pressed steel sheets, the corrugations of which made at least half the area thinner. Concrete floors were actually more common in so called lightweight cars. posting.php?mode=quote&f=1&p=306674# The only passenger cars I know of that would have had "heavy" poured concrete anything were the baggage combines that the Atomic Energy Commission had. They were painted in L&N liveries and had a heavy concrete vault in the baggage end. The passenger compartment was used to transport AEC staff and guards with the shipment. |
Author: | Alan Walker [ Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:01 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: A few questions |
NYCRRson wrote: "In the NEC, Metroliners running at 125 mph took the NY-WAS market from the airlines." Yes, but that is a very small part of the entire USA landmass. NY-WAS is a VERY TINY part of a VERY BIG country. Here we are 50 years after the Metroliners and trains running at 125 mph have made no appreciable inroads against long distance airplane travel (NY-WAS - 300 miles, NY-LA 3000 miles). "In Europe they think a hundred miles is a really far distance, in America they think 100 years is a really long time." The bit that was a major factor in the success of the NEC against the airlines is the fact that train operations are not as affected by low visibility as air operations. That and by the time you add the time and expense to get to and from the airport, the NEC becomes a much more attractive travel option. |
Author: | ted66 [ Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:49 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: A few questions |
DJL, Many Pullman cars had block ice air-conditioning. We have the heavyweight sleeper lounge Circumnavigators Club at the Western railway Museum. Some of our members were long distance travel fans. S they arranged to load the block ice (100 pound blocks) aboard the CC an make it cool for a whole weekend. It was the only time I saw that system at a museum. At the other end of the season it was cold and the cars had steam heat. We had a Diesel locomotive with a steam boiler, it made good steam after some stale diesel fuel was removed from the water tank. a few museums most oftem the mid-Continent Railway Museum uses steam heated cars. And the Illinois Railway Museum has purchased a Steam generator car to supply heat to Diesel powered passenger trains. I am guessing you may be planning to visit the USA by train. I am sure you will find the Amtrak California Zephyr from Chicago to San Francisco (Region); to be the most scenic ride across the USA. Ted Miles, Western Railway Museum |
Author: | djl [ Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:51 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: A few questions |
But why in the world to pour concrete on a rail passanger car floor? I like the "Gothic" windows. Pitty they where gone so fast. I wonder what where the companies that last time used them. The 1st "Orinetal Limited" had wooden cars or steel cars? |
Author: | EJ Berry [ Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:54 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: A few questions |
The success in the NEC is more the congestion getting to Reagan National (KDCA) and either Newark Liberty (KEWR) or La Guardia (KLGA) from the cities and the security uncertainity at the airports. By contrast, you show your ticket at WAS Union Station, get on the train and the Acela takes you right to 34th St and 8th Ave in NY. And there's no middle seat. Phil Mulligan |
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