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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Thu Dec 03, 2020 9:16 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 612
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Interesting thought. In reality most cabooses are dome cars when you consider the cupola.

The original California Zephyr was built in 1949 as a dome train with each coach being a dome car and two additional cars had domes reserved for the Pullman passengers. Again the CZ had no extra fare, no dome fee.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Dec 11, 2020 10:13 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 102
Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
I will look more on that mail bag stuff.
The Hupp Automatic Railway Service was that automatic sytsem intended for automatically picking up mail bags.
Some of the Y for picking up orders where in fact in form of peace simbol (without the circle, of course).

What I find intresting is that beside theyr numbers, U.S. passanger had sometime names too. And you can trace the history of some by the number or by the name. Do this in Romania with passanger cars.

One railroad company that had intresting trains, troughh all that not that famous as other companies was "Leigh Valley". "Black Diamond" and "John Wilkes" looked intresting. And the 1st one had some intresting steam locomotives as motive power in the early days.
And those rocket style streamlined locomotives used by both trains, through all not very big (they where Pacific type), made the impresion. Even "A.L.Co." made some impresion, because of the levery - yes, "Lehigh Valley" had image.
On the inside, "John Wilkes" didn't made such a big impression (from my point of view), but on the outside, yes, it did. I wonder how confortable where the cars: https://www.collectorsweekly.com/storie ... ohn-wilkes
"Black Diamond", in the early days had impressive interiors on the cars. I didn't find too much image unfourtenley. One from here looked impressive on the outside too: https://scotlawrence.smugmug.com/Railro ... -coach.jpg
Oh, American trains are so intresting that I can spent all night just searching about them. But I ain't.

But before I press enter, here is an intresting page about the Catasauqua, the crossroad of the Antrachite Rairlorads: http://www.thehopkinthomasproject.com/T ... rticle.htm

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2020 12:33 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 612
Location: Philadelphia, PA
The John Wilkes train was designed by Otto Kuhler and served as a business train between Pittston, Wilkes-Barre etc. and New York, leaving W-B in the morning, arriving NY later in the morning; then returning at the end of the business day from NY, arriving later in the evening in the Wyoming Valley. There was a dining car on the afternoon train to Mauch Chunk (now Jim Thorpe). There was also a Reading Company connection from Bethlehem to Philadelphia.

John Wilkes was a British polititian who supported American independence. The City of Wilkes-Barre is named for him and Sir Isaac Barre. Barre was also a champion of the American Patriots and had coined the term "Sons of Liberty."

http://njrails.tripod.com/20th_Century/ ... Wilkes.htm

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:58 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 102
Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
Business train? Meaning that the ticket price was bigger?
That John Wilkens was related to a notorius John Wilkens?
Penn. Central Station had an advantage in operation?

About 21 years ago, beeing passionate by '50's music I bought miself a Carl Perkins C.D. It contained "Rock Island Line" song. Then I didn't payed attention to the lyrics and thought is was about a sheap that is going to Rock Island Line or a sealine... about 3 years ago I found out it was an railroad.
I can only imagine the sound and the feeling of '40'-'60's U.S.A trains...

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:08 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:59 pm
Posts: 607
djl wrote:
That John Wilkens was related to a notorius John Wilkens?

I think you are confusing John Wilkens with John Wilkes Booth, who assasinated President Abraham Lincoln in 1865.


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:14 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 612
Location: Philadelphia, PA
By business train I meant it was timed to take people in Wilkes-Barre to New York in time to attend to business matters during NY working hours, then return to W-B the same evening. If their business were in Philadelphia, there was a connection at Bethlehem for Philadelphia that would meet the same criteria. There was no extra fare or higher ticket price, unless the passenger chose the Parlor Car.

The name of the train was The John Wilkes. As I had mentioned he was an 18th Century English politician who had supported American independence from England. The City of Wilkes-Barre was named for him and Sir Isaac Barre, another English politician who had supported American independence from England.

The assassin of President Abraham Lincoln, John Wilkes Booth, was named for John Wilkes.

The station in New York used by the John Wilkes was Pennsylvania Station (Penn Station), built and owned by the Pennsylvania Railroad. There was no "Central" in the name. Several blocks away New York Central had its Grand Central Terminal. There was no "Penn" in that name. The tracks to the two stations came from different directions and did not connect.

The John Wilkes went to Penn Station because the Lehigh Valley connected with the Pennsylvania Railroad at Newark NJ and the tracks went to Penn Station from there.

The song, "Rock Island Line" dates to the 1920's and names places that were never served by the Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific RR. It was first recorded in 1934. Railroad songs were common in that era. I'm glad you heard the Carl Perkins version. He was a good singer.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 8:14 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 102
Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
That business thing... how many things could did railroads back then. I wondered if you did pay extra for sending letter while en-route.
On wikipedia it's saying that John Wilkes Booth was named after John Wilkes and they where distant relatives. Probably the late part of information is wrong.
Later I found out that the song is older. And I do like a lot of old songs about trains. There is nothing like the train.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Dec 16, 2020 1:57 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:23 am
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Location: Piedmont
Quote:
PO cars had a mail slot for deposit of mail, just like a mailbox. Everybody suggested you hand the mail to a clerk yourself though.

The clerks were pretty busy as only a POD employee could load mail through the narrow doors of the RPO Mail Apartment. Inside was a secure area: only authorized personnel. And the clerks were armed. (usually a Colt .38 Detective Special in a belt holster.)

As to how the mail moves after July 1, 1977, I'm pretty sure they sort it at a sectional center and truck it between NY, Phila, Wilm, Balto and Was. They can't meet next morning delivery without the train.

BTW wesp's last day cover is from ConRail #4, the Northward/Eastward train WAS to NY.

Phil Mulligan


Trains Magazine had a two-page spread in their August(?) 1977 issue that touched upon these goings-on, and what was to follow. Thinking about it now, I'm left with the impression that by 7/1/77 a lot of what the clerks were doing was ceremonial.


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2020 11:52 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 102
Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
I will try to see if I can find that article.
But beside the Zepyhrettes and some women attendent in pre '30's luxury trains (like the women who helped traveling women to take care of theyr image or took care of the children), there where other women attendants of the train. I think the airline where the ones to put more women as attendants.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 07, 2021 11:51 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
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Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
The J class from "Norfolk and Western" where made from steel made in electric arc furnaces. Did this gave them more duriablity compared to other steam locomotives?

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:25 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 612
Location: Philadelphia, PA
The first N&W J's were built in 1941 and they were withdrawn from schedulled mainline passenger service in December, 1957, giving a service life of 16 years. 611 was built in 1950 and is still operable at age 70, but it sees service intermittently at best.

The really durable engines are the D&RGW K-36 narrow gauge (3 feet; 914 mm) 2-8-2's. They were built in 1925 by Baldwin and of the ten built, eight are either in service or being overhauled for further service at the age of 95.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:47 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 102
Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
Well, they wheren't too much in service because of Diselification. A true judgment about lasting could be made if Dieselefication only camed in power after mid '60's. But you can tell how often did they needed maintance compared to other locomotives of about age.
Durango and Siverton would be called in Romania a mocăniţă. Mocan is a hill or mountain villager or sheppered, name used especially in Transylvania. But Romanian mountain gauge trains where of narrower gauge - 760 m.m.'s.

Edit: "Santa Fe De Luxe" had buthub in train (or did it had more of them?), on the males side. But I wonder how big it was. The images are scanned at not big resolutuion, so I can't see too much of the diagram.


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