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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2022 8:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
During both WWI and WWII the USA and Canada were allied and bought locomotives to a common design from domestic builders for European service. Montreal Locomotive Works was actually owned by US-based ALCO.

In peacetime, each of these countries' locomotives were built in their own country, with import duties charged if a locomotive were actually imported. A free trade treaty eliminated the duties later.

Congratulations to Rumania for building their own locomotives, even exporting them.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:21 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
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Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
In Romania, from the beginging, rail transport was consider vital. So it was invested pretty lot into it. After 1989 thing strated to go down.
Romanian "A.L.Co." Diesel-Electric locomotives where a failure. I don't know what was the main reason for it. It's bad, because they where more powrefoul then the classic 060DA ones and some had electric heating for trains, so where there was no electrification, you dind't need a heating car (vagon WIT). Some export versions locomotives where really big failures... the G.D.R. Diesel-Hydraulic ones especially.

Does any one haves pictures of the late railstock of the "Broadway Limited"?
"Milwaukee Road" EP2, "Pensy" GG1 and the electric centipied of "Great Northen" where the most spectacular Electric locomotives in U.S.A.
In that 1926 book of electric rail transport I found a French Electric locomotive that resembled with "Milwaukee Road" EP2.
When the last train between U.S.A. and Mexico runed? I guess for Canadian connection there are still trains.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:47 pm 

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Location: Philadelphia, PA
I don't know why Alco diesels in Romania were unreliable; several railroads in the USA and Canada are still using Alco diesels even though Alco went out of business in 1969 and Montreal Locomotive Works exited the rail business in 1985.

Freight traffic continues to move between the USA and both Canada and Mexico.

Through passenger service to Mexico ended in 1969 although you could still transfer by crossing the border yourself and travelling between Laredo USA and Nuevo Laredo Mexico. From 1973 to 1981 Amtrak ran a train called the Inter-American, then renamed the Aztec Eagle to Laredo. Again, passengers had to make their own way from Laredo to Nuevo Laredo.

Through passenger service to Canada is suspended because of COVID restrictions. It will resume when US and Canadian bureaucrats say it can.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2022 12:08 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
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Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
I don't know either.
The distance for transfer is big? And what happened in 1969? At least in U.S.A. passanger service remained in some areas, Mexico I've read dindn't had passanger trains for some year after 1997.
I wonder, if there wheren't for the freeways, the passanger train would have had stand more chances versus the auto competition, since on a normal road (even express one) vehicles don't move as fast on freeways.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Mar 23, 2022 10:56 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
Laredo and Nuevo Laredo are across the Rio Grande from each other.

The Interstate Highway System, authorized by the Federal-Aid Highway Act of 1956, was the primary event that killed the passenger train. The first Boeing 707 commercial flight on December 20, 1957, was the next event.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 1:07 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
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Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
Without the freeway system, probably the train wouldn't have had faced such competition on shorter distances. But past is past, and we can't change it.
Did "Norfolk and Western" J class locomotives had a fire place that could be more easely be cleaned comparing to other locomotives?
What are the oldest passanger cars now in current use in the U.S.A.?
There are still some private own cars in U.S.A. But did anyone ever owned a private self propeled rail car/Diesel multiple unit for it's own use.
I'm glad to see that trough all that in U.S.A. passanger car service went down for about half o century, there are still persons who are preserving and restoring old rail stock.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Tue Mar 29, 2022 2:05 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
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Location: Northern Illinois
Quote:
Without the freeway system, probably the train wouldn't have had faced such competition on shorter distances. But past is past, and we can't change it.


If the automobile had never been invented, the US would have had a comprehensive system of electric trams and what are now called light rail in the most populous parts. We were well on the way in the first decade of the twentieth century... Then the newer technology outpaced it. Peak mileage of the interurban electric railway system came in 1917; by 1950 it was virtually extinct; done in by the greater personal freedom afforded by the automobile.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 12:43 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
Sperry Rail Service owns a fleet of self-propelled cars used to inspect the track of contracting railroads. Other companies also operate railcars for inspections but hi-rail trucks are taking their place.

The oldest passenger cars may be some gallery cars in Chicago commuter service. There is a privately-owned (by a commuter club) car dating to 1949 operating daily to and from Chicago on the former C&NW lines between Kenosha and Chicago.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2022 1:01 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
My list of the oldest cars excludes narrow-gauge cars used by D&SNG, C&TS and WP&Y, some of which date to the 19th century and are in daily use during the operating season.

Strasburg R R has some ex-Reading cars dating to 1910 that are in daily use during the operating season.

I was guessing you meant cars in regular passenger service.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 8:15 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
Yes, I ment regular service. For ocasional service (like trips) there are very old cars in Romania too.

As for automobiles, for the country side people, they are good. But for urban and people from suburbia * not. As long as the number of automobiles is not to small, but not to large, is good. But people cant's stop and the automobile starts to ruin things. I can see in Bucharest that... 24 years ago, there where no more then 500,000 (fifty thousand - half of milion) motor vehicles in Bucharest. It was arelady too much, but o.k. Now they exced 1,000,000 (one million) and it's a nightmare. And people keep buying automobiles in stad of saying "stop!!". Plus there are neiberghoods in the suburban communes and cities of Bucharest... of course, many people are using the automobile, extending the nightmare.
And freedom? What freedom? In a rural or low density area, the automobile is freedom. But in suburbs, no. In stad of going a mile or less to the store, you need to drive. If you don't have enough cars in the family or you don't have the money for car repairing and no public transporation you're free to stay in one place. Very big freedom indeed.

* I will avoid to use the term suburban because in Romanian suburban it can be a term for uncivilized, bad personality.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2022 11:00 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
djl wrote:
What are the oldest passanger cars now in current use in the U.S.A.?


The most typical dividing line for "regular use" is "revenue service" as opposed to special use. This means that at any moment the car in question can be put on a scheduled money-generating passenger train such as Amtrak or a commuter train NOT operated for excursion or tourism service.

Amtrak is supposed to, by now, have retired the very last of its so-called "Heritage Fleet," cars that predated Amtrak's 1971 start-up, acquired from predecessor railroads. The very last such cars to run in service were some diners, sleepers, and a last set of baggage cars. I believe it's possible that a few baggage cars remain in service solely to add to certain short Midwest Service trains to trigger certain signalling systems that "don't like it" when a too-short train crosses detectors. There could be others lurking around as storage cars or the like, without being assigned to trains.

I believe the oldest survivors in revenue non-Amtrak service, NOT counting vintage business cars used by Norfolk Southern or other lines in executive-train service, may be a set of former CB&Q/BN 1950s(?) bilevel Gallery cars passed down to Music City Star commuter trains out of Nashville (now branded WeGo Star). They replaced the last of the seven even older C&NW gallery cars (1948-54 or so?) that were used until about a year or two ago. I can't think of older cars in service at the moment.


Last edited by Alexander D. Mitchell IV on Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2022 9:32 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
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Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
Thank your for the "technical" English specification.
But what "ranks" had the trains in U.S.A. There are suburban or short distance trains, but there where also long distance trains. Long distance trains could be split into normal trains, that had more stop and "limited" who where the equyvalent of European expres trains (or what you be calling today an InterCity, InterCity Express trains).
I found out was gasoline electric self propeled rail cars I've seen in the 1926 French edition of a Austro(-Swiss) book rail traction... they where "General Electric" made: https://oldtimeerie.blogspot.com/2014/0 ... ctric.html
http://justacarguy.blogspot.com/2018/10 ... r-his.html
Intersting rail company. They had some nice rail stock: http://www2.hsp.org/collections/manuscr ... s/3500.htm
The book is very intresting too. The horizontal dimension is as big as telephone book (directory) and it's having the size of one (ha, some one made the comparance of the number of rail companies in U.S.A. in the past, saying something like if took al them, you could fill a phone book) and like a phone book, you can find some intresting refernces - ha, they have some reffernces about stuff published in U.S.A. too! I payed for it about 1/17-1/20 of a minimal wage (sallary) from Romania (and that's when it had 60% price cut), but I worth the money. You barley can find a book like this here. And the 2nd book store is not far away from me. Now the rail book rests bellow a book (this one in French too) about electricity meters, bought from the same 2nd book store :)

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2022 11:34 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
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Location: Northern Illinois
Here is a link to a page that gives a good, but brief, history of the major players in self propelled railcars in North America: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doodlebug_(rail_car)

Keep in mind that General Electric was already a major player in street railway and transit electrification, and went on to become a locomotive builder, while Electro-Motive was purchased by General Motors and became EMD, the primary diesel loco builder for a long time.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2022 12:01 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
J. G. Brill also produced gas-electric cars including EBT M-1 (completed in Orbisonia).

It wonders me why GE didn't go with diesel power after the 300 HP Ingersoll Rand engine proved successful in box cab locomotives. Gasoline exhaust will corrode exhaust manifolds and in the 1940's there were fatal accidents associated with carbon monoxide impairment of the engineer, in particular a July, 1940 head-on collision with a freight near Cuyahoga Falls OH with 43 fatalities. PRR changed its gas cars to diesel. Other roads did not and had more collisions.

Budd RDC's are completely different animals from gas-electric cars. First, they use two Detroit (GM) 6-110 diesels with the engines mounted under the floor, one on each side, using a hydraulic torque converter to transmit the power to the adjacent axle.

As to "ranks" of trains many roads used lighter or older cars on suburban trains and on many roads, through trains did not carry local passengers in the suburban zone. While most through trains were air-conditioned, back in the day most suburban trains were not. Today, suburban trains are air-conditioned.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Sat Apr 02, 2022 6:26 pm 

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Location: Northern Illinois
I suspect that after the ALCO-IR-GE consortium ended GE decided to let others take the risk with untried technologies and pulled back to their core business; they certainly weren't lacking for orders as both Brill and EMC were using GE electrical equipment. They didn't get serious about locomotives again until they lost both EMD and Baldwin as customers and ALCO was increasingly looking like a bad bet.

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