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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Tue Jun 07, 2022 1:05 am 

Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 1:26 pm
Posts: 236
The star-delta motor and starter setup reduces the inrush starting current of an induction motor. When starting, the motor stator windings are configured in a star pattern and then at 80% speed the starters switch the motor windings to delta. I assume that these systems have been replaced by variable frequency drives, now.

This is a pretty good explanation of how it works:

https://www.electrical4u.com/star-delta-starter/


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 1:08 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
Probably I've seen this before (or just another film with the same theme), but didn't thought that each vista-dome car had a Diesel engine for air conditioning and ventitaltion... I thought the power camed from the locomotive: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZvejrLnnuo
Anyway, I like that 8 m.m. camera. Probably the promo film was shot on 16 m.m., but not even 8 m.m. was for everybody (geah, I dream of 16 m.m.)

Here is another intresting video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_rha6DYRdA
It's probably after W.W. 2, judnging by the hairstyles. Postwar boom.
I like the lady from 6:33 (later to be seen in the Torquise Room).

But I wonder if Black people ever rode in these trains. The Chicago - St. Paul and Chicago - Tacoma ones rode mostly on non segregated areas for public transporation, but I never seen Black (or Yellow) people pictured in them (before the '60's). Does any one haves a Black promo film for trains.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:04 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1398
Location: Philadelphia, PA
The 25/60 Hz transformer problem has become a current problem (no pun intended)

NY City wants commuter trains on the Hell Gate Line in order to run to to Penn Station and serve that portion of the Bronx, especially Co-op City. Trouble is (other than track capacity) the MNR M-8 EMU cars heve 60 Hz-only transformers, and while the NH Line and Hell Gate Line are 60Hz, from around "GATE" (near "HAROLD") and into Penn Station the power is 25 Hz. The M-8 cars can't run into Penn Station.

As to diesel power on individual cars, PRR rebuilt some standardweight dining cars around 1950 with diesels on each car to provide electricity. At that time most new or rebuilt cars used axle-driven generators and batteries to meet their electric needs. The diesels were allowed in Penn Station and under the rivers.

The ATSF High-Level cars beginning in 1954 used diesels for power as did their "Big Dome" full-length dome cars.

Amtrak converted their cars to use electricity provided by the locomotive or a power car, following the examples of Chicagoland commuter roads and PRR's Tubular Train.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 4:27 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1398
Location: Philadelphia, PA
One more thing. The real Transylvania is part of Rumania. Pennsylvania means Penn's Woods; William Penn was the proprietor of the British colony of Pennsylvania.

There was also a Transylvania in what is now the USA. The Royal Proclamation that ended the French and Indian War in 1763 made lands west of the Appalachians "Indian Territory." In 1775, the Transylvania Company purchased land from the Cherokee Nation in what is now Kentucky, to be settled by Europeans, and to be called Transylvania. They did not consult any First Nation that had right to this land other than the Cherokee. Both Virginia and North Carolina deemed the claim invalid.

Transylvania University, founded in 1780, is in Lexington KY.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:11 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Northern Illinois
djl wrote:
Probably I've seen this before (or just another film with the same theme), but didn't thought that each vista-dome car had a Diesel engine for air conditioning and ventilation... I thought the power came from the locomotive.


That's Waukesha equipment. That firm was making propane powered self contained a/c systems for railroad cars since the thirties; upgraded to diesel after WWII.

Quote:
But I wonder if Black people ever rode in these trains. The Chicago - St. Paul and Chicago - Tacoma ones rode mostly on non segregated areas for public transporation, but I never seen Black (or Yellow) people pictured in them (before the '60's). Does any one haves a Black promo film for trains.


Most those promotional films used actors, and the railroad knew their target market. No offense intended to anyone, but there was not a lot of money in the black community in those years.

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2022 5:50 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1398
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Waukesha cars were used mostly West of Chicago and St. Louis.

Cars using or carrying propane (or gasoline) are not permitted in the North or East River Tubes or in Penn Station NY. In fact, for military passenger trains carrying gasoline or propane there were set out points at Sunnyside NY and Harrison NJ where any gasoline or propane had to be unloaded and stored. The train could then go through Penn Station and replenish the gasoline or propane on the other side where it had been removed from a train in the other direction.

I would suspect gasoline and propane were not permitted in Grand Central Terminal NY either.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 4:08 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
1) If propane wasn't permited on that tunnels, the companies that operated trains on those tunnel used other forms to power air condition?
And why they whern't operated with electricity from the start? Because the light weight cars where borned in the days when steam still operated.
I know about that company, but dind't know they switched to Diesel engines for a.c.;

2) In the '40-'70's there where any non-smoking cars?

3) I knew that it was a Transylvania in U.S.A. too.
As for the one from Romania, because of "Dracula" by Bram Stoker, Trasnsylvania becomed associated with vampires and later othe monsters (thank to film industry).
And of course, it caught on, because people don't study too much. Of course, there are misinterpretations about other countries too;

4) Going nowdays, besides New York City (N.Y.C.), Boston, Chicago and probably Seattle, which are the U.S.A. cities with commuter trains (more then 2-3) to serve the suburbs?;

5) How much of the rolling stock in use today is designed in U.S.A. and how much by companies to be used in U.S.A.
What remains of the former "Pullman" factories (today owned by "Als.tom."). They made streetcars and trolleybuses too;

6) Pay phones are still avaible on trains?;
7) Do they still print rail timetables?

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:03 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:58 am
Posts: 250
djl wrote:
4) Going nowdays, besides New York City (N.Y.C.), Boston, Chicago and probably Seattle, which are the U.S.A. cities with commuter trains (more then 2-3) to serve the suburbs?


In the Philadelphia, Pennsylvania area SEPTA has it's Regional Rail Division

http://www.septa.org/service/rail/


New Jersey Transit runs trains from Philadelphia to Atlantic City

https://www.njtransit.com/atlantic-city-summer

Depending on how loose your definition of commuter trains is, there's also the PATCO High Speed Line between downtown Philadelphia and Lindenwald.

http://www.ridepatco.org/

As well as the Riverline light rail line between Camden NJ and Trenton NJ

https://www.njtransit.com/light-rail-to ... F09%2F2022



In the Baltimore Maryland area MARC runs commuter service on three routes to Washington DC

https://www.mta.maryland.gov/schedule?type=marc-train


South of Washington DC, VRE runs commuter service into Washington DC from Virginia

https://www.vre.org/


Springfield Massachusetts to New Haven Connecticut has commuter rail service, as well as Shore Line East from New Haven Connecticut to New London Connecticut.

Los Angeles California and San Francisco California also have large commuter train operations... There's also commuter service in the state of Florida

Hope this helps

Brian Helfrich


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2022 12:07 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1398
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Waukesha propane A/C was a relative rare type of air conditioning, used mainly in the West. Before WWII, PRR mostly used ice to air condition its cars. Other roads used electro-mechanical A/C from various builders, using a generator driven by the wheels and batteries.

Some roads, notably Santa Fe and Erie, used steam ejector A/C. Erie switched to electro-mechanical after WWII and Santa Fe used diesels on its high-level cars and Big Domes.

PRR's had only a few diesel diners; older diners used ice; newer elecrto-mechanical. The tubular train with power from a generator, was one set of cars.

Propane could not be used in Penn Station because, as a gas, it's heavier than air and a spark could cause an explosion. Gasoline produces explosive vapors wherever it is.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Sun Jul 10, 2022 7:05 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
Thougt propane was lighter then air.
In Romania we don't have any underground train station (there where projects for Bucharest between the wars, but they where never put in practice). But in big underground car garrages cars with G.P.L. (Gaz Petrolifer Lichefiat = Liquified Petrolium Gas) are prohibited, because of risk of explosion. In some urban road passages too.
As for "Waukesha" (found now that the company is named after a Wisconsin town), they made ads in which they sayed that more cars can be pulled by a locomotive if they are equyped with such engines, because unlike cars that needed dynamos to generate electricity for a.c., the drag effort was smaller.
I traveled with cars equyped with dynamos or alternators. In Romania I think they where still in use in 2000. But only for iluminating and charning batteries they where used... a.c. cars camed later, by the end of the 3 0 ('000's) years. Not the very best ideea to have windows that can be barley open if you put a.c., because in Romania there is lack of maintinance and sometimes air condition on passager rail cars gets broke and when is summer (sometimes is very hot, even if you are not in the southern plains) and is very, very, very bad.
As for steam ejectors, "George Washington" train ('30's - prelight cars consent) had steam ejector. I was amazed to find out that you can cool by using something... hot.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGzqAaMwu1M
As for ice, I wonder if ice was used for air in other countries for passanger cars or it was an U.S.A. (any maybe Canada and Mexico) thing. A topic (thread) about refrigerators will be intresting.
Ha, didn't know that Florida had commuter trains. I know that after more then 80 years, it haves the 1st private rail built railroad in U.S.A.
Here is something old about suburbans: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rv4aFeLNWaI
Thanks again people!

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Mon Jul 11, 2022 9:35 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:13 am
Posts: 55
> Thougt propane was lighter then air.

Propane is "heavier" than air. Natural gas, methane, is lighter.

A side note: in the Pullman mechanical system, the compressor was axle driven and there was provision for operating the compressor electrically off 3 phase "shore power". The electro-mechanical system on the CB&Q Zephyrs used an electric motor to drive the compressor at all times. When the train was standing, or moving less than about 27 mph, the motor was powered from the car's batteries, which were lead-acid because Edison cells can't withstand the amount of power drain.


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 5:23 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
There was ever produced in U.S.A. a lengthier steam locomotive than "Union Pacific's" Big Boys?

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:32 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1398
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Yes rhere was a longer steam locomotive.

A UP Big Boy is 132 feet 9 1/4 inches long.

PRR's S1 4-4-4-4 experimental passenger locomotive 6100 (built 1940) was 140 feet 2 1/2 inches long.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2022 4:04 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:51 pm
Posts: 167
Location: Bucureşti, Capitala României / Bucharest, Capital of Romania
In U.S.A., because longer and sometimes heavyer trains that in Europe, and sometimes very long routes too, they preffered multiple units locomotives in case o Diesel. But why in case of multiple Diesel units they didn't used driving cabins at the both ends? Most electric, execept for old multiple units where double ended, but usually they where single unit (shorter routes, more powerfoul locomotives).
Off-topic: did ever steam ejectors where used for cooling buildings?

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 Post subject: Re: A few questions
PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2022 9:28 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:10 pm
Posts: 226
A little off topic but buses used Waukesha gasoline air conditioners under the bus in the luggage compartment. These were older buses but still in use for charters in the early 1970’s.

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