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 Post subject: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:21 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:20 pm
Posts: 45
Location: Denver, CO
As many will know, finding info (that is current) or even rosters of surviving passenger equipment from US lines that went to Mexico is difficult. I took it upon myself to compile a roster of equipment that is still in Mexico as of 2020 (or close to it anyway).

A few notes on the list.
-All of the stock here has been confirmed (unless otherwise noted) to still be there via Google Maps imagery, assorted photographs found online (including the photos function on Google Maps) as well as some notes from the Mexlist group from within the last five years or so. (there are some exceptions to this).
-Some of the cars on the list may have not originated from a US road, but likely have origins from a US builder.
-There is a section at the end of unconfirmed cars. With each car, I've put a date of the newest sighting of the car I could find, either in a photograph or observation (as found from various Mexlist messages).
-Also included is a section of cars known to have been scrapped (or likely to have been scrapped) within the last 10 years or so.
-Cars are organized by railroad in each section, with the exclusion of the cars with unknown histories, then those are organized by their current NdeM number.

This roster is by no means complete or totally comprehensive. As you will see, there is information that is missing. Any error are of my own mistake. Any corrections or additions are most welcomed.

Photos will be added in a following post.


Alder & Arco Steel:

Business Car 5000, ?. NdeM 3520 "Presidente Carranza". Ferrosur, Apizaco, Tlaxcala.


AT&SF:

RPO 9x, Budd 1954. NdeM 2555. Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

RPO 1xx, Budd 1964. NdeM 2572. Hercules, Querétaro. On display at public library (former railway station).

RPO 1xx, Budd 1964. Sold to NdeM, converted to Pay Car. NdeM 123046. Yucatan Railway Museum, Mérida, Yucatan.

Lunch Counter-Diner 1558, Budd 1948. Sold to FXE via CRLE. FXE 150002. Ferromex, used as part of Dr. Vagon traveling medical train.


ACL:

Diner "La Grange", P-S 1950. NdeM 3674 "Tamaulipas". Museo Ferrocarrilero de Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes.


CN:

Diner 1375, P-S 1954. NdeM 3675 "Coahuila". Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.


CP:

Coach ????, CC&F, ?, NdeM 4422. Morelia, Michoacán. Abandoned off side of mainline west of town.


C&O:

10-6 Sleeper 2648 "City of Marion", P-S 1950. Sold to IC, 3517 "Clifton". 3517 "El Raramuri". Ferromex, Mexicali, Baja California. Last seen in 2012.

Coach xxxx, ?. NdeM 401. Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.


C&EI:

Coach 479, Budd 1953. NdeM 4483. Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

Coach 483, Budd 1953. NdeM 4485. Museo Ferrocarrilero de Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes.

4-5-1-4 Sleeper 905 "Florida Lakes", P-S 1954. NdeM 626 "Opalo". Hercules, Querétaro. On display at public library (former railway station).


C&NW:

Bi-Level Coach 114, P-S 1961. Tren Turistico 7765. Tren Turistico Tecate-Tijuana, Tecate, Baja California.

Bi-Level Coach 134, P-S 1961. Tren Turistico 7785. Tren Turistico Tecate-Tijuana, Tecate, Baja California.

Diner 6950, P-S 1939. NdeM 3646 "Playa Mocambo". MUTEC, Mexico City. Museum closed circa 2017, car (along with all the other rail equipment here) still on site as of October 2019.

Diner 6952, P-S 1939. NdeM 3649 "San Jose Purua". MUTEC, Mexico City. Museum closed circa 2017, car (along with all the other rail equipment here) still on site as of October 2019.


CB&Q:

10-6 Sleeper 430 "Silver Chasm", Budd 1952. Sold to Amtrak. Sold to VIA. Sold to FXE. FXE 15007. Ferromex, used as part of Dr. Vagon traveling medical train.

10-6 Sleeper 431 "Silver Dale", Budd 1952. Sold to Amtrak. Sold to VIA. Sold to FXE. FXE 15008. Ferromex, used as part of Dr. Vagon traveling medical train.

Sleeper ????, P-S, ?. SME "Chile Verde". Sierra Madre Express, Nogales, Sonora. This car may no longer be in use.


DL&W:

Diner 460, Pullman?. Sold to Mexican Government, converted for Presidential Train use. Republica Mexicana 5. MUTEC, Mexico City. Museum closed circa 2017, car (along with all the other rail equipment here) still on site as of October 2019.


D&RGW:

10-6 Sleeper 1134 "Silver Glacier", Budd 1952. NdeM 645 "La Coruna". Yucatan Railway Museum, Mérida, Yucatan.


FEC:

Diner "Fort San Marco", Budd 1947. Sold to FXE via CRLE. FXE 150001. Ferromex, used as part of Dr. Vagon traveling medical train.


MILW:

Diner-Lounge 173, MILW 1948. NdeM 107. Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

Coach ????, MILW 1935. NdeM 3xxx. Xalapa, Veracruz. In use as a community center near railway station.


MP:

10-6 Sleeper 612 "Elk River", Budd 1949. NdeM 754 "Leon". Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

10-6 Sleeper 618 "Eagle Lodge", Budd 1949. NdeM 584 "Peru". Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

14-4 Sleeper 668 "Eagle Turn", P-S 1948. NdeM 253 "Rio San Miguel". Yucatan Railway Museum, Mérida, Yucatan.

Business Car "Spa", Pullman 1914. NdeM 3512 "Presidente Avila Camacho". Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.


NH:

RDC-1 31, Budd 1953. Sold via ITAX early 2000s. MBTA 75. La Estación, north of Villa de Hidalgo, San Luis Potosí. In use as dining room of restaurant/gas station/rest stop.


NYC:

Baggage-Lounge 34 "Martin Van Buren", Budd 1941. NdeM 367 "Club J. M. Pino Suarez". Aguascalientes, displayed at shop complex.

10-6 Sleeper 10109 "Schoharie Valley", Budd 1949. NdeM 563 "Argentina". Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

10-6 Sleeper 10131 "Hunting Valley", Budd 1949. NdeM 565 "Brasil". Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

6DBR-Lounge 10630 "Rainbow Stream", Budd 1949. Sold to NdeM, rebuilt to Business/Official Car. NdeM 5808 "El Cachanilla". Museo Ferrocarrilero de Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes.

Unknown Sleeper. Ferromex, Mexicali, MX. Last seen in 2012.


NP:

4-1-Lounge-Obs. 392 "Tacoma Club", P-S 1948. SME "Arizona". Sierra Madre Express, Nogales, Sonora

Coach-Buffet-Lounge 494, P-S 1947. NdeM 3681 "Janitzio". Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.


PRR:

Coach-Smoker 1587, Budd 1951. To Amtrak. Sold to KCS. Rebuilt to Inspection Car. KCSdeM 2014 "Queretaro". KCSdeM, Monterrey, Nuevo Laredo.

Power Car 9600, Budd 1956. Sold to FXE via CRLE. FXE 15xxx. Ferromex, used as part of Dr. Vagon traveling medical train.


Pullman:

13 DBR Sleeper 300, P-S 1941. To SP 9350. 9350 "Sierra Pelona". Ferromex, Mexicali, Baja California. Last seen in 2009.

8-1-2 Sleeper "Centavia", Plan 3979A, Pullman 1928. NdeM 177 "Lago de Chalco". Science Park, León, Guanajuato.

Private Car "Chicago", Plan 2492, Pullman 1914. SCI 103. Formerly part of the Silver Creek International fleet. Moved from San Luis Potosí to a private ranch circa 2017.

6DBR-Lounge "Genesee Falls", Plan, P-S 1940. To NYC 10594. NdeM 373 "Club Esmeralda". Yucatan Railway Museum, Mérida, Yucatan.

4-4-2 Sleeper "Imperial Empire", Plan 4069E, P-S 1940. To NYC 10018. NdeM 148 "Golfo de Darien"/Jones 8117 "Sandra Linda". Ferromex, Mexicali, Baja California. Last seen circa 2009.

4-4-2 Sleeper "Imperial Ranch", P-S 1942. Also seen this car as former "Imperial Mark". To UP. Sold to NdeM, rebuilt to Business Car. NdeM 3593. Museo Ferrocarrilero de Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes.

12-5 Sleeper "Magic Brook", P-S 1939. To PRR 8020. 2746 "Rio Magico". Ferromex, Mexicali, Baja California. Last seen in 2012.

12-1 Sleeper "McDaniel", Plan 3410, Pullman 1924. Rebuilt to 6-6 Plan 4084A "Poplar Valley". NdeM 110 "Buenos Aires". Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

10 Section-Obs. "Mt. Hood", Pullman 1923. Sold to NYC, converted to Business Car. NdeM 3522. FXE?, Veracruz.

Private Car "Pilgrim", Plan 2502C, Pullman 1917. Sold to E. B. McLean. Sold to C&O, converted to Business Car 16. NdeM 190 "Sonora". Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

Parlor-DR "Romola", Pullman 1912. Sold to C&O, rebuilt to Coach 619. Sold to NdeM, converted to Business/Special Car. NdeM/SCI 3546. Formerly part of the Silver Creek International fleet. Moved from San Luis Potosí to a private ranch circa 2017.

8-1-3 Sleeper Unknown Name, Pullman. Converted to Business Car. NdeM 3575 "Gerencia de Produccion". Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

8-1-2 Sleeper Unknown Name, Pullman. Converted to Business Car. NdeM 3582 "El Hidrocalido". Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

14 Section Sleeper Unknown Name, Pullman. NdeM number unknown. Ciudad Mante, Tamaulipas. Near abandoned station. Name assumed to have been "City of Erie".

Possible 12-1 Sleeper Unknown Name, Pullman. La Estación, Guanajuato. In use as dining room of restaurant/gas station/rest stop.


SOU:

10-6 Sleeper 2009 "Potomac River", P-S 1949. NdeM 745 "Nogales"/"Rio Rapido". Ferromex, Mexicali, Baja California


SP:


SPdeM Business Car 181 "Guadalajara", ?. NdeM 181 "Guadalajara". Ferromex, Puebla. Most recent photo from 2007. This car is also lettered for Bangor & Aroostook.

SPdeM Business Car 189 "Sinaloa", ?. FNTX 196328. Ferromex, Hermosillo, Sonora. Most recent photograph from 2006.

T&NO Diner 926, Pullman 1929. NdeM 3628 "Playa de Santiago". MUTEC, Mexico City. Museum closed circa 2017, car (along with all the other rail equipment here) still on site as of October 2019.

10-6 Sleeper 9000, Budd 1950. Sold to Amtrak. Sold to VIA. Sold to FXE. FXE 15006. Ferromex, used as part of Dr. Vagon traveling medical train.

10-6 Sleeper 9004, Budd 1950. Sold to Amtrak. Sold to VIA. Sold to FXE. FXE 15004. Ferromex, used as part of Dr. Vagon traveling medical train.

10-6 Sleeper 9006, Budd 1950. Sold to Amtrak. Sold to VIA. Sold to FXE. FXE 15005. Ferromex, used as part of Dr. Vagon traveling medical train.


UP:

Lunch Counter-Lounge 4000, AC&F 1955. Sold by UP 1987. NdeM 4000. Huehuetoca. Carbody stored on a private lot.

LA&SL Lounge-Obs. 4405, Pullman 1926. Rebuilt to Business Car 110. Sold by UP 1987. KCSdeM 1810 "Cuidad de Mexico". KCSdeM, Monterrey, Nuevo Laredo.

LA&SL Lounge-Obs. 4406, Pullman 1926. Rebuilt to Business Car 112. Sold by UP 1987. NdeM xxxx. Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

Diner 4814, AC&F 1949. Sold to Overland Rail. Sold to NdeM. FXE 149004. Ferromex, used in El Chepe service.

Coach 5341, P-S 1942. Rebuilt to Instruction Car 203. Sold by UP 1987. UP 203. Railway Museum, Torreón, Coahuila.

Baggage-Dorm 6007, AC&F 1949. To SME, converted to Sleeper car. SME "Ing. Ballesteros FCP". Sierra Madre Express, Nogales, Sonora.

Baggage-Dorm 6008, AC&F 1949. To SME, converted to Sleeper car. SME "Divisadero". Sierra Madre Express, Nogales, Sonora.

Dome Coach 7006, AC&F 1955. Sold by UP 1987. NdeM 371 "El Yaqui". Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

Dome Coach 7011, P-S 1958. FXE 149015. Ferromex, used in Chihuahua Pacifico service.

Dome Diner 8007, AC&F 1955. SME "Tuscon". Sierra Madre Express, Nogales, Sonora.

Dome Diner 8009, AC&F 1955. Sold privately, 800031 "Columbia River". Sold to KCS. KCSdeM 2005 "Monterrey". KCSdeM, Monterrey, Nuevo Laredo.

Unknown Car. FXE 112025 "Bar". Ferromex, used in El Chepe service.

Unknown Car. FXE 112027 "Tarzan". Ferromex, used in El Chepe service.


USAX:

Hospital Car 895xx, St. Louis Car 1953. Sold to Amtrak, rebuilt to Baggage-Dorm. Converted to Power-Dorm. KCSdeM 1997 "Tampico". KCSdeM, Monterrey, Nuevo Laredo.



Cars with Unknown Histories:

Official/Presidential Car Republica Mexicana 1. MUTEC, Mexico City. Museum closed circa 2017, car (along with all the other rail equipment here) still on site as of October 2019.

Official/Presidential Car Republica Mexicana 2. MUTEC, Mexico City. Museum closed circa 2017, car (along with all the other rail equipment here) still on site as of October 2019.

Diesel Instruction Car NdeM 3. ex-Pullman sleeper?. Railway Museum, Torreón, Coahuila.

Instruction/Official Car NdeM 5. ex-Pullman Sleeper?. Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

Press Car NdeM 20, Budd, ex-Sleeper?. Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

Baggage NdeM 1175, ?. Display, unknown location.

Coach NdeM 1552, Pullman 1926?. Yucatan Railway Museum, Mérida, Yucatan. Placard with car says it was built in 1926 for the SP, but it doesn't look like any SP car I'm familiar with.

Baggage NdeM 2398, ?. Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

Coach NdeM 3250, ?. Otumba. Displayed near Museo del Ferrocarril.

Coach NdeM 3257, ?. Tulyehualco, DF. Displayed with NdeM 352.

Business Car NdeM 3503 "Diez y Siete de Abril", ?. Previously a car named "Tamega". Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

Business Car NdeM 3513 "Diecisiete De Julio", ?. Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

Business Car NdeM 3517 "Presidente Lazaro Cardenas", ?. Museo Ferrocarrilero de Aguascalientes, Aguascalientes.

Business Car NdeM 3519, ?. Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla. This car may not be from a US line.

Official Car NdeM 3550 "Coche de Amometro", P-S?, ex-Sleeper?. Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

Business Car NdeM 3553 "Valle de Anahuac", ?. FVTM, Tlalnepantla.

Coach NdeM 4964, ?. Speculated to be ex-Erie. Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

Coach NdeM 5306, ?. Ferromex, Mexicali, Baja California. Last seen 2009.

RPO-Baggage NdeM 12142, ?. Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

Instruction/Official Car NdeM 12178, ?. Museo Nacional de los Ferrocarriles Mexicano, Puebla.

10-6 Sleeper FXE 149009, Budd. Ferromex, used as part of Dr. Vagon traveling medical train.

Coach SBC xxxx. Possibly an ex-SP Harriman coach. Display, Mexicali, Baja California.

Coach, unknown number. San Agustin, Jalisco. Near railway station.

Coach, unknown number. Unknown Location, possibly Huehuetoca.

Coach, unknown number, Budd. Unknown location, used as a community food shelter.

Sleeper, unknown number, Budd. Railway Museum, Tulancingo, Hidalgo.

Unknown Type, possibly Diner. Transport Museum, Xalapa, Veracruz. Museum closed? Car gone?



Scrapped/Possibly Scrapped Cars:

AT&SF 10-3-2 Sleeper "Blue Grove", P-S 1948. Either SCI 002 "Zacatecas" or SCI 004 "Queretaro". San Luis Potosí. Former Silver Creek International Car. Burned circa 2015. Still there as of 2015. Possibly scrapped.

AT&SF 10-3-2 Sleeper "Blue Mott", P-S 1948. Either SCI 004 "Queretaro" or SCI 004 "Zacatecas". San Luis Potosí. Former Silver Creek International Car. Burned circa 2015. Still there as of 2015. Possibly scrapped.

ACL 10-6 Sleeper "Pinellas County", P-S 1949. SCI 003 "Guanajuato". San Luis Potosí. Former Silver Creek International Car. Removed circa 2015. Likely scrapped.

KCS 14-4 Sleeper "William Buchanan", P-S 1948. SBC "Spanish Eyes". Benjamin Hill, Sonora. Scrapped 2008.

NYC 5DBR-Lou.-Obs. 10565 "Sunrise Brook", Budd 1949. SCI 3518 "Real de Catorce". San Luis Potosí. Former Silver Creek International Car. Last seen circa 2014. Removed circa 2015. Likely scrapped.

Pullman 8-1-2 Sleeper "Centburne", Pullman 1928. SBC 1257 "Maria Elena". Benjamin Hill, Sonora, last seen 2009 stored at old SBC shops. Most stock cleared out 2010s, likely scrapped.

SAL 10-6 Sleeper 31 "Savannah", P-S 1949. SCI 001 "San Luis Potosí". San Luis Potosí. Former Silver Creek International Car. Burned circa 2015. Still there as of 2015. Possibly scrapped.

SAL 11 DBR Sleeper 73 "Sebring", P-S 1956. NdeM 754 "Oviedo"/SCI 754 "Aguascalientes". San Luis Potosí. Former Silver Creek International Car. Last seen circa 2014. Removed circa 2015. Possibly scrapped.

T&T Motorcar 99, EMC. SBC 2501. Benjamin Hill, Sonora, last seen 2009 stored at old SBC shops. Most stock cleared out 2010s, likely scrapped.

UP Dorm-Lounge 1527, Pullman 1924. SBC "Mexicali Rose". Benjamin Hill, Sonora, last seen 2009 stored at old SBC shops. Most stock cleared out 2010s, likely scrapped.

WP Dome-Obs 882 "Silver Planet", Budd 1948. SCI 108. Former Silver Creek International car. San Luis Potosí. Burned circa 2013. Last seen 2014. Reported to have been removed circa 2015 to an undisclosed location.



Unknown Fates:

AT&SF 1xx, Budd 1964. Converted to Pay Car. NdeM 3565. Last seen 2003.

C&O 2647 "City of Fostoria", P-S 1950. NdeM 273 "Lago Tequesquitengo"/192 "Hermosillo". Mexico City. Last seen 2003.

C&EI Coach 46x, P-S. To IC 250x. SBC/IC 250x. Pascualitos, Baja California. Last seen 2006.

D&RGW 10-6 Sleeper 1131 "Silver Summit", Budd 1952. NdeM 642 "Sevilla". Mexico City. Last seen 2006.

L&N 10-6 Sleeper 3410 "Green River", P-S 1949. NdeM 707 "America". Last seen 1999.

NYC Tavern-Lounge 35, Budd 1947. NdeM 377 "Club Guadalajara". Pozos, San Luis Potosí. Last seen 2002.

NYC 10-6 Sleeper 10103 "Orchard Valley", Budd 1949. NdeM 575 "Holanda". Last seen 1999.

NYC 10-6 Sleeper 10106 "Peaceful Valley", Budd 1949. NdeM 578 "Liberia". Mexico City. Last seen 2003.

NYC 10-6 Sleeper 10107 "Peach Valley", Budd 1949. NdeM 577 "Indochina". Last seen 1999.

NYC 10-6 Sleeper 10133 "Happy Valley", Budd 1949. NdeM 566 "Canada". Mexico City. Last seen 2003.

Pullman 6-6-4 "American Brigade", P-S 1942. Rebuilt to Business Car. NdeM 3576 "Jesus Garcia". Mexico City. Last seen 2003.

Pullman 10-1-2 Sleeper "Lake Salvador", Pullman 1923. NdeM 602 "Agustin Lara". Unknown Location. Last seen 2003.

Pullman 16 Section "Seminole", Pullman. Rebuilt to Coach-Diner. NdeM 3621 "Juventino Rosas". Grounded body at unknown location. Last seen early 2000s.

UP 10-6 Sleeper "Pacific Guard", Budd 1950. To MILW. NdeM 630 "Aragon". Unknown Location. Last seen 2001.

UP 11 DBR Sleeper "Placid Valley", P-S 1956. NdeM 731 "Aranjuez". Mexico City. Last seen 2003.

Business Car NdeM 3591 "Agauleguas", ?. Mexico City. Last seen 2003.

Official/Business Car NdeM 12212, ?. Mexico City. Last seen 2003.

Diner unknown number. Possibly ex-CB&Q. Empalme, Sonora. Last seen 2005.

Business Car unknown number. Mexico City. Last seen 2006. (See accompanying photo post)

Business Car unknown number. Unknown Location. Last seen 2006. (See accompanying photo post)



Sources:
-Jerry Laboda's Passenger Car Photo Index
-Robert Wayner's "The Cars That Went to Mexico"
-W. David Randall's "Passenger Car Library" & "Official P-S Library" series
-Ted Brumberg's Surviving Car Lists
-Assorted Mexlist messages/posts
-Google Maps aerial/street view imagery

_________________
Wil Hata

Railroad Preservation Index


Last edited by VinylRailfan on Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:41 am, edited 6 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:35 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 10:20 pm
Posts: 45
Location: Denver, CO
The following is a selection of photos from around the internet and Google maps points/imagery that I've found to suppliment the above roster. None of these images are mine.

A&A 5000: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=2677439

AT&SF 9x: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bvohra/32321108777/

AT&SF 1xx (Hercules): http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=2865073

AT&SF 1xx (Merida): https://www.flickr.com/photos/bruce_edm ... otostream/
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Railr ... 89.6124607

ACL "La Grange": https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ferro ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

CN 1375: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

C&O 614: http://ndem.rrpicturearchives.net/showP ... id=1965185

C&O Unknown: http://cs.trains.com/cfs-file.ashx/__ke ... 0_3300.jpg
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

C&EI 479: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=4251765

C&EI 483: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ferro ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

C&EI 905: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=2865100

C&NW 114: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tecat ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

C&NW 134: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tecat ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

C&NW 6950: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=1568112
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 99.1942984

C&NW 6952: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ekzfotos/2353320346/
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 99.1942984
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 99.1942984

CB&Q 430: https://www.flickr.com/photos/125375936 ... 923113162/

CB&Q 431: https://www.flickr.com/photos/125375936 ... 923113162/

DL&W 460: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=3415459

D&RGW 1135: https://www.flickr.com/photos/silviacj/ ... otostream/
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Railr ... 89.6124607

FEC "Fort San Marco: https://www.flickr.com/photos/125375936 ... 923113162/

MILW 173: https://www.flickr.com/photos/bvohra/33 ... 710680381/
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

MILW Unknown: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=1568228
https://www.google.com/maps/place/19%C2 ... -96.905277
https://www.google.com/maps/@19.5456672 ... 384!8i8192

MP 612: https://www.flickr.com/photos/subzonica/6993797897/
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

MP 618: https://www.flickr.com/photos/vladimix/ ... 205144002/
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

MP "Spa": https://www.flickr.com/photos/bvohra/32 ... 710680381/
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

NH 31: http://www.celorio.com/2pics/RDC_75.jpg
http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=1567971

NYC 34: https://www.flickr.com/photos/hugovalde ... otostream/

NYC 10109: https://www.flickr.com/photos/subzonica ... otostream/
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

NYC 10131: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

NYC 10565: http://ndem.rrpicturearchives.net/showP ... x?id=93932

NYC 10630: https://www.flickr.com/photos/dorisfm/14090697455/

NP 392: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=1218342

NP 494: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

PRR 1587: https://www.flickr.com/photos/125375936 ... 923113162/

PRR 9600: https://www.flickr.com/photos/125375936 ... 12588@N08/

Pullman "Centavia": https://www.flickr.com/photos/tar_zan/2574085895/

Pullman "Chicago": http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=1965141

Pullman "Genesee Falls": https://www.google.com/maps/place/Railr ... 89.6124607

Pullman "Imperial Ranch": https://www.google.com/maps/place/Ferro ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

Pullman "McDaniel": https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

Pullman "Mt. Hood": http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=755548

Pullman "Pilgrim": https://www.flickr.com/photos/bvohra/33387141748/

Pullman Unknown (3575): http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=4251766

Pullman Unknown (3582): http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=3602004

Pullman Unknown (Mante): http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=611390

SOU 2009: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=5199664

SPdeM 181: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=778193

SPdeM 189: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=902790

SP 926: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=1568111
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 99.1942984

SP 9000: https://www.flickr.com/photos/125375936 ... 923113162/

SP 9004: https://www.flickr.com/photos/125375936 ... 923113162/

SP 9006: https://www.flickr.com/photos/125375936 ... 923113162/

UP 4000: https://www.flickr.com/photos/125375936 ... 923113162/
https://www.google.com/maps/@19.8420469 ... 6656?hl=en
https://www.google.com/maps/place/19%C2 ... 0427?hl=en

UP 4405: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=4884527

UP 4406: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

UP 4814: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=2359077

UP 5341: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Train ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

UP 5341: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Train ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

UP 7006: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=464736
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

UP 7011: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=1216349

UP 8007: http://trainweb.org/DOMEmain/picUP8007b.jpg

UP 8009: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=4417489

USAX 895xx: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=5051323



RM-1: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=3415462

RM-2: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=3415458

NdeM 3: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Train ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

NdeM 5: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=4251779

NdeM 20: https://www.flickr.com/photos/fotologmx ... 257711924/
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

NdeM 1175: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=1568173

NdeM 1552: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Railr ... 89.6124607

NdeM 2398: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

NdeM 3250: https://www.flickr.com/photos/125375936 ... 923113162/

NdeM 3503: https://www.flickr.com/photos/fotografi ... 973794299/
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

NdeM 3513: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

NdeM 3517: https://www.flickr.com/photos/65830171@ ... 585378545/

NdeM 3519: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=2376959
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

NdeM 3550: https://www.flickr.com/photos/129138705 ... 287306577/
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

NdeM 3553: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=4443971

NdeM 4964: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=4251760

NdeM 12178: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Museo ... 1!1BCgIgAQ
FXE 149009: https://www.flickr.com/photos/125375936 ... 923113162/

La Estacion Sleeper: https://www.google.com/maps/place/La+Es ... 1!1BCgIgAQ
https://www.google.com/maps/place/La+Es ... 1!1BCgIgAQ
https://www.google.com/maps/place/La+Es ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

SBC Coach: https://www.flickr.com/photos/omaromar/ ... otostream/

San Agustin unknown: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=4136147

Tulancingo Sleeper: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Railw ... 1!1BCgIgAQ

Unknown Budd Coach: https://www.flickr.com/photos/125375936 ... 923113162/

Unknown Business Car A: http://ndem.rrpicturearchives.net/showP ... ?id=335825

Unknown Business Car B: http://ndem.rrpicturearchives.net/showP ... ?id=332353

Unknown (Hue) Coach: https://www.flickr.com/photos/125375936 ... 923113162/



Pullman "Centburne": http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SbSj9-iZTP4/S ... +Elena.jpg

WP 882: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... ?id=335869
http://ndem.rrpicturearchives.net/showP ... x?id=93958



AT&SF 1xx: http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?a ... _24_03.jpg

D&RGW 1131: http://calzephyr.railfan.net/ghosts/mex/NMSEVI~1.jpg

Pullman "American Brigade": http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPictur ... id=1568106

Pullman "Lake Salvador": http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?a ... _24_03.jpg

Pullman "Seminole": http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=739674

Unknown Diner (CB&Q?): http://abpr.railfan.net/abprphoto.cgi?m ... _16_05.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:38 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:47 pm
Posts: 127
Location: Arizona
Anyone know the fate of NdeM business car 3520 "Presidente Carranza"? It's original owner was the Magma Arizona Railroad. Magma sold it to ASARCO in the 1930's, who sold it to NdeM. I was still in service into the 1970's.


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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:58 pm 
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Earl Knoob wrote:
Anyone know the fate of NdeM business car 3520 "Presidente Carranza"? It's original owner was the Magma Arizona Railroad. Magma sold it to ASARCO in the 1930's, who sold it to NdeM. I was still in service into the 1970's.


Earl, if I'm not mistaken, I believe this car and Alder & Arco 5000 car are one in the same. It's owned by Ferrosur and occasionally still used. It still has the 3520 number. The name, I believe, has either been shortened to just "Carranza" or removed altogether. The most recent images of the car I was able to find show it inside the car shed in Apizaco.

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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:12 am 
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First off, wow, that's an impressive summary. Several cars I didn't have updates on.

Let's add some info, on the Pullmans to start.

C&O coach #619. This car has not been previously discussed in the Pullman thread. This was among those that were rebuilt from excess Pullman parlors acquired in the early 1940's, specifically this was the Plan #2668 Adorea (ex-Romola), 30 seat-1DR, Lot #4051, 1912, all 7 cars in this Lot built for assignment to the LV, renamed 1918, sold to C&O in 1941, rebuilt to 84 seat coach, later resold to NdeM as #4012, later rebuilt to #3546. I don't have a full C&O roster, so no data on when this car was sold to NdeM, although 1950 seems likely (nor how many of these #600-series coaches C&O sold as such).

Plan #3979A 8S-1DR-2C Centavia. Again, not a car that had been previously discussed in the Pullman thread. Lot #6205, 1928, built for assignment to NYC, sold to NYC at divestiture as #10972, resold 1957 to broker Edwards Int'l for resale to Mexico, temporarily assigned #MGRS-85 by NdeM in 1958, 1960 to #177 Lago De Chalco.

Plan #2492 private (business) car Chicago. This car had been discussed previously (line item/index #375). I did not have the update that it had been moved in 2017. Lot #4210, 1914, sold to NdeM in 1934.

Plan #3410 12S-1DR McDaniel to Plan #4084A 6S-6DB Poplar Valley. Again, not discussed previously. Lot #4763, 1924, rebuilt 1939, sold to NdeM 1961.

Plan #2502C private (business) car Pilgrim. This car had been discussed previously (line item/index #230). Lot #4490, 1917, sold to E.B. McLean in 1922, later resold to PM as #2, later to C&O as #16, later resold to FCP as #190 (date unknown, 1950 would be a safe bet).

#3575 Gerencia de Produccion had been discussed before (line item/index #290), but the info on which car it was, either under U.S. or NdeM ownership, wasn't known, it was only identified as a Plan #4090A 8S-1DR-3DB sleeper. NdeM acquired 3 of these from C&O in 1950 (these were rebuilt in 1939 for the George Washington from Plan #3584 10S-2DR Point-series cars built in 1925 in Lot #4843), 4 from NYC in 1958, and 1 more from Pullman in 1959.

#3582 El Hidrocalido had not been discussed before. NdeM acquired 6 of these Plan #3979A 8S-1DR-2C sleepers in 1950, also from C&O, then a further 19 from NYC (including those assigned to subsidiaries CCC&StL and MC) in 1957, and finally 1 additional car from SP in 1962.

Sleeper in Ciudad Mante. Large number of section windows, either 14S or 16S. But, narrowing it down, this is a Plan #3958 or #3958A 14S sleeper, as NdeM did not have any Plan #2412 16S sleepers on the roster. NdeM acquired 4 from C&O (including PM) in 1950, and 23 from NYC (including CCC&StL) in 1957-1960. But the former name City of Erie isn't correct, as these cars were in the New, Park, and Star-series, or various names.

La Estacion sleeper. This appears to be a 12S-1DR sleeper, but I can't narrow it down further than that.

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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:34 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:18 pm
Posts: 495
Location: Illinois
Does anyone have a list of the cars UP sold to NDeM in the late 1980s? I see two on the list above - my understanding is there were quite a few more - is there a list out there?

This is a very interesting list. Thanks for compiling this.


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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:59 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2014 5:05 pm
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Information from south of the border is very hard to get. I have made several attempts to get info on the US built rail cranes used in Mexico with almost no results. Are there any MdeM equipment books out there?


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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:25 pm 

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Don Strack's UtahRails.net has extensive history of the UP cars sold to Mexico in 1986.

https://utahrails.net/pass/mexico-ex-up.php

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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:54 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:44 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
I've been very interested in the former Silver Creek International cars stored on, or near Arenal street in San Luis Potosi, MX., including the former WP dome lounge observation "Silver Planet" and the ex-NYC observation car. Most of the train was stored on tracks that ran next to the street, but some lightweight cars appeared to be inside a fenced yard just off the street at 170 Arenal, San Luis Potosi. I've studied Google Street View images dating back to 2014, which show the cars deteriorating over time, and single cars periodically disappearing.

The most recent Google street view images from 2019 show that ALL the cars are gone, as well as the tracks themselves, except for a couple of remnants going into the yard at 170. Since the tracks were paved over in several spots and the cars were heavily vandalized/burned over time, it's logical to conclude that they were scrapped in place.

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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:02 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:18 pm
Posts: 495
Location: Illinois
Thanks for the link to the cars UP sold to Mexico.
So, of the 21 that went to Mexico, it only appears 4 are known to have survived.
That UP sale was quite a loss to the preservation community.


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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:11 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:34 pm
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So the MUTEC museum in Mexico City - did it close because of lack of volunteers, money or what? Is the equipment "safe" or in danger of being cut up?


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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:12 pm 
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Rainier Rails wrote:
First off, wow, that's an impressive summary. Several cars I didn't have updates on.

Let's add some info, on the Pullmans to start...


Ted, thanks for the updates on some of those cars that I was otherwise missing info for!


davew833 wrote:
The most recent Google street view images from 2019 show that ALL the cars are gone, as well as the tracks themselves, except for a couple of remnants going into the yard at 170. Since the tracks were paved over in several spots and the cars were heavily vandalized/burned over time, it's logical to conclude that they were scrapped in place.


Well, it must be safe to assume, that excluding the two heavyweights that were evidently saved, the rest of the fleet is gone.


diningcartim wrote:
So the MUTEC museum in Mexico City - did it close because of lack of volunteers, money or what? Is the equipment "safe" or in danger of being cut up?


To be honest, I don't really know the answer to this. I know that a number of museums in Mexico have government connections, so it could very well have been a money thing. As for the rolling stock, it appears to be safe. The former museum building itself appears to be having some kind of work being done on it, as the October 2019 street view shows some outside work being done. I believe this is the case as the three dining cars, (the two ex-C&NW cars and the ex-T&NO car) which were displayed pretty much right up against the building, have all been moved to along the rear fence line.

https://www.google.com/maps/@19.4143539 ... 384!8i8192

The stock, aside from having a little wear from being outside, appears to be kept up and doesn't appear to have suffered from any vandalism. Also, in 2014, the UP did a refurbishment on the rolling stock at the museum (the passenger stock, a FCM Boxcab electric, a NdeM 4-8-4 and a UP Centennial), so at one point the UP had some sort of investment in the equipment at the museum, which could still very well be possible. So as far as I can tell, someone is keeping watch on the rolling stock. Who, I don't know.

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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 11:34 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 3:07 pm
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Wil,

In your first post, you list a D&RGW car that became NdeM 645 "La Coruna". Wayner lists that car as D&RGW 1134 "Silver Glacier", a 10-6.

Outstanding labor of love that you're doing! Thanks from everyone interested in passenger trains south of the border.

Jim Tatum


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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:45 am 
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I thought that I recalled that someone had said that the WP California Zephyr dome sleeper lounge observation that was part of the Silver Creek fleet in San Luis Potosi, the Silver Planet, despite being fire damaged, had indeed been moved elsewhere, not scrapped. I checked, found those comments, and yes, this is reportedly the case. I don't have further intel on where it is now, only that it is a "safe location".

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 Post subject: Re: The Cars That Went to Mexico...That are Still There
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:38 am 
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1702 wrote:
In your first post, you list a D&RGW car that became NdeM 645 "La Coruna". Wayner lists that car as D&RGW 1134 "Silver Glacier", a 10-6.


Oops! It totally is! I'll fix that.


Rainier Rails wrote:
I thought that I recalled that someone had said that the WP California Zephyr dome sleeper lounge observation that was part of the Silver Creek fleet in San Luis Potosi, the Silver Planet, despite being fire damaged, had indeed been moved elsewhere, not scrapped. I checked, found those comments, and yes, this is reportedly the case. I don't have further intel on where it is now, only that it is a "safe location".


Interesting. I do suppose that if the two heavyweight cars were saved, then its not impossible to assume some of the more interesting lightweights were as well. I'll make note of that.

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