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 Post subject: Re: Last Call For New River Scenic RS3 & Coaches in Tenn.??
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:19 am 

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:17 pm
Posts: 79
From google maps looks like a pretty scenic area. Is it comparable to say the Leigh gorge scenic or Great smoky mtn rr in terms of how scenic the ride is?

Seems a lot of track to maintain and not really THAT close a major population center.


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 Post subject: Re: Last Call For New River Scenic RS3 & Coaches in Tenn.??
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:48 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4241
Location: Maine
So nothing is going to be done to save, store, or rehabilitate this equipment?
It is just that far gone, particularly the RS3?

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 Post subject: Re: Last Call For New River Scenic RS3 & Coaches in Tenn.??
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:55 pm
Posts: 775
Location: Warren, PA
Part of the STB debate on the line is what it is worth, I'll stay out of that - but the washout puts them in an interesting position of either fixing it to get the welded rail out by rail train or saw-cutting a heck of a lot of welded rail to make it back into jointed and trucking it out.

If they do decide to fill the washout and pull the rail as welded, there will be a narrow window to drag that out at least to the interchange on its own wheels instead of trucking it out. The killer on any non-Budd cars is always the condition of the frame structure under the windows and the sills, particularly if water has infiltrated over time.

There's still a lot of local filings and interest to keep the line in. As Monty Python says, 'but I'm not dead yet!". While the STB turned down the OFA process, a deal could still be made, and it's happened before.


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 Post subject: Re: Last Call For New River Scenic RS3 & Coaches in Tenn.??
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:36 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:45 pm
Posts: 183
The route is very scenic and isolated. Mining and logging has occurred, but the mountains are mostly covered again with forest. You also have elk, deer, bear, and other wildlife in the hills.
Check out: http://www.techscribes.com/sarm/Tenn%20RR%20Charter.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Last Call For New River Scenic RS3 & Coaches in Tenn.??
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:21 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:17 pm
Posts: 79
Very cool! Thanks for the link. Shame there is no potential for freight traffic


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 Post subject: Re: Last Call For New River Scenic RS3 & Coaches in Tenn.??
PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:19 pm
Posts: 137
Here are my thoughts on the RS3 and the NYCRR combination car.

RS3 - RDG 520:

I know that there is a widely shared goal of returning preserved equipment to service at some point. From all that I know about the 244 prime-mover, keeping the operable ones is a challenge and returning any locomotive to service with one tests the limits of feasibility. For this unit, RDG 520, I think a good future for it would be to serve as a parts unit for either the Reading Company Technical and Historical Society's RS3 (RDG 485) or for the Delaware-Lackawanna's 244 powered fleet (depending on who acquires it) and for the body to join RDG 467 (a RS-3) on static display at Steamtown. In the context of Steamtown, this would be useful in visually demonstrating how MU'd road switchers replaced steam locomotives that, individually, had much higher horsepower (such as RDG 2124).

Combination Car - NYCRR 290:

Bringing new people to our trains and museums is key for the survival of railroad preservation and education. But a close second is making it possible for volunteers/members/fans to enjoy the ride as they get older. (The youngest persons that remember the pre-Amtrak era will be 55 years-old this year.) Combination cars are an important strategic resource in that they can handle mobility devices without attempting structural modifications. Streamlined coach-combination cars are relatively rare, as railroads generally didn't include them in post-war orders for complete trains. Rebuilding this car with self-contained air conditioning and a staggered seating pattern that would allow passengers with mobility devices to join family and friends in coach seats, a major benefit for a busier museum or historically oriented tourist railroad. It would be up to an individual organization to decide if the benefits are worth the cost.


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 Post subject: Re: Last Call For New River Scenic RS3 & Coaches in Tenn.??
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 12:47 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 9677
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Now the next question:

Does anybody have the resources to get these out, and is whatever return on investment (a probably huge one) worth it?


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 Post subject: Re: Last Call For New River Scenic RS3 & Coaches in Tenn.??
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:19 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2007 7:19 pm
Posts: 137
For the combine, the project would make it eligible for grants from accessibility organizations that railroad heritage projects typically aren't eligible for.

In addition to the question of does anybody have the resources - the other question would is anybody interested enough to contact the property owner to find out the current situation? I think there is a reasonable possibility that the property owner will pay for part of the removal cost just to be rid of a liability that could complicate future plans for the property. This sounds generous (and it is) but it is also a common and expected expense among buyers and sellers of complex properties.

Past stories reported on RYPN usually describe a property owner looking doing a quick search for "a" train museum and contacting a model railroad club calling themselves a museum that is not able to take on the equipment. The next call is to a scrapper - probably from one of the many ads in the various rail (and non-rail) trade magazines.

Being proactive can resolve questions and open opportunities.


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 Post subject: Re: Last Call For New River Scenic RS3 & Coaches in Tenn.??
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:24 am 

Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 2:28 pm
Posts: 12
Thomas Cornillie wrote:
Past stories reported on RYPN usually describe a property owner looking doing a quick search for "a" train museum and contacting a model railroad club calling themselves a museum that is not able to take on the equipment. The next call is to a scrapper - probably from one of the many ads in the various rail (and non-rail) trade magazines.

Being proactive can resolve questions and open opportunities.


This scenario seems to come up quite a bit. I know some museums and preservation groups/individuals have better relations with their neighbors and the scrap yards than others, but is there something we should be doing at a national level to make non-rail preservation equipment owners aware of preservation-oriented disposal options?


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 Post subject: Re: Last Call For New River Scenic RS3 & Coaches in Tenn.??
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:35 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:22 pm
Posts: 271
Wasn't there a question of ownership on these items already?

CD


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 Post subject: Re: Last Call For New River Scenic RS3 & Coaches in Tenn.??
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:57 am 

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:29 am
Posts: 263
The best and most attractive option for keeping equipment from going to scrappers would be to #1: make it well known that you'll give more than scrap value...as many people will be more motivated by money, even if it's only a little bit...
#2: have an ability to move the equipment reasonably quickily...and cheaply... Because they always want it moved yesterday...

We're it me, I could see having some moving equipment, adapted for moving rail cars...
Maybe have it owned by a group of museums/operators.....or perhaps set up as rentals, where the group rents it at reasonable rates to cover maintenance costs, transportation, etc...

The next issue would be finding volunteers..or paid people...who could be scheduled to go to do the work.....

Yet another option might be working with a existing mover/transport operator...make deals with them for special pricing, etc...

As to ownership issues....
The tourist operation owner was willing to sell them...a long time ago...for a very high price....
The owner of the line is Corman....presumably, someone is either paying storage for them....or Corman officially owns them by default....

If Corman owns them, it might be possible to make a deal...basically they give them to you and you remove them.....then you're on to the issue of how to get them out....


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 Post subject: Re: Last Call For New River Scenic RS3 & Coaches in Tenn.??
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 1:13 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 811
Location: New Franklin, OH
The toughest nut to crack is the moving expense no matter how you approach it. Even a simple roll on - roll off move can suck up a big sack of large denominations. The bigger and heavier it is and the farther you need to go determines how much of a small fortune you need to raise. And it seems time is usually of the essence. There are a couple pieces out there that I would love to get my hands on but without a winning Powerball ticket, it’s a moot point to me.

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 Post subject: Re: Last Call For New River Scenic RS3 & Coaches in Tenn.??
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:57 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:54 am
Posts: 42
Maybe the trucking firm that moved the Monon SW1 in Indiana is up for an opportunity to restore their good name?


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 Post subject: Re: Last Call For New River Scenic RS3 & Coaches in Tenn.??
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:36 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 5:48 pm
Posts: 372
Location: Hickory, NC
I have heard the suggestion before, but not really ever seen it in practice but:

Could the Army Corps of Engineers move the equipment out as a training exercise?

That being said/asked, I would have no idea about how to get the ball rolling on such a request.


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 Post subject: Re: Last Call For New River Scenic RS3 & Coaches in Tenn.??
PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:25 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2009 12:10 pm
Posts: 170
Location: TN
I would suggest you visit the equipment to actually see the feasibility of trucking it out. It would be no easy feat, if even feasible.

If you can get the truck/crane to the hole the stuff is parked in (crazy sharp hill approach (enough that I wasn’t going to take my SUV the last little bit to the spot the equipment is at) and narrow bridge on the mine road behind the coal tipples), you’re not going to have much more luck on the extremely curvy two lane road in and out (in either direction, but especially not if you’re coming from Petros/Brushy). The equipment would have to be moved (I’d guess you could get a Trackmobile down there to drag it out, but that’d be a long trip (especially for a trackmobile) over the whole railroad which hasn’t seen any movement/maintenance in 7-8 years to get it somewhere that would be reasonably better to truck out. I’m not sure you could even get a truck down to Winona (narrow tight road), but that’s at least near the highway. But I don’t think you can go past there, as I believe the large washout is between there and Huntsville where the old boarding area was (which would be THE ideal location on the line for trucking something out (besides just getting it into Oneida, which would only be a couple more miles at that point).

I visited the equipment a few months ago, the decay is incredible. Besides getting completely trashed by the daily loads of visitors to the train due to its viral sensation (the “Abandoned Tennessee” Facebook group alone sees multiple new posts daily from people with their visit that day on this equipment) recently and accessibility from a very popular ATV riding area. Wildlife has moved in too. Not sure what was living in the a/c system in the combine, but I heard something up there and it’s moved plenty of foliage through the ventilation ducts. The concrete floor subfloor is falling out, many holes are forming there. All electrical cabinets have been stripped for copper in the locomotive and both cars. The commuter car is pretty solid still. It’s all fixable, but add to the growing costs associated with removal. Even just a few years ago, the equipment looked serviceable, but ever since a YouTuber with a semi decent following (Carpetbagger) posted a video on it, it became viral and got trashed quick in the time following with all the visitors!

The foliage surrounding everything continues to encroach the equipment, considering what I saw months ago when I was there and comparing to pictures from recently, it will soon be consumed by the landscape.

I rode the train twice during operation. It’s sad seeing the equipment and line in the shape it is now (most crossings are paved/dirtied over and the roads and surrounding communities in general look like they’ve decayed a lot in the last 10 years from what I remember). Both were quite nice, it was an enjoyable trip over the whole railroad and the equipment, especially the combine, was quite nice.


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