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 Post subject: Re: WMSR / C&O #1309 lift - 10 June 2020
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:23 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11501
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
PMC wrote:
Is it possible on a Mallet to cut off the steam to the rear engine but keep steam going to the front engine, or vice-versa? That could have been useful for limping back to the yard if you had a mechanical problem on one of the engines.


I've never heard of such an arrangement on a North American Mallet or other articulated. I believe it may have been possible to cut out one engine on a Beyer-Garratt.

The problem with your idea is that I can't think of a "mechanical problem" where such an arrangement would be of benefit, except maybe blowing out the cylinder head of one engine. If you drop a rod or the valve gear, you have to get that out of the way first, and if you slip a cylinder ring you'd have to disconnect the main rod........


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 Post subject: Re: WMSR / C&O #1309 lift - 10 June 2020
PostPosted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6405
Location: southeastern USA
Agreed. Better to limp home on 3 cylinders than 2.

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“God, the beautiful racket of it all: the sighing and hissing, the rattle and clack of the cars over the rails. These were the sounds that made America the greatest country on earth." Jonathan Evison


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 Post subject: Re: WMSR / C&O #1309 lift - 10 June 2020
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:29 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:41 pm
Posts: 540
Location: Minneapolis, MN
For this test and clean out, they would have set the locomotive up so the front engine was running "simple". That is, it would get full pressure steam just like the rear engine. Apparently something was not right with the simpling valve because the front engine was not getting any steam. But that's why they run the tests. Take a bunch of items off the punch list and add another item.

Every test brings us closer to the real deal.


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 Post subject: Re: WMSR / C&O #1309 lift - 10 June 2020
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:43 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:37 am
Posts: 46
Dave wrote:
The steam would be first used in the HP cylinders before going to be expanded a second time in the LP cylinders, so if the steam is allowed to escape the HP cylinders that's where it would end up next. My supposition is that the position of the valve in the associated HP cylinder didn't allow for the steam to be exhausted from HP to LP on that side, of the position of the valve in the LP cylinder wasn't letting it in. Consider lap, please......


During a test of this type, you do not want the valves installed as they would prevent the debris from being blown out of the chambers. The narrator kept saying "pistons" but he was referring to the piston valves. The actual pistons had already been installed, as could be seen by the piston rods connected to the crossheads.


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 Post subject: Re: WMSR / C&O #1309 lift - 10 June 2020
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:46 am 

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:37 am
Posts: 46
hamster wrote:
For this test and clean out, they would have set the locomotive up so the front engine was running "simple". That is, it would get full pressure steam just like the rear engine. Apparently something was not right with the simpling valve because the front engine was not getting any steam. But that's why they run the tests. Take a bunch of items off the punch list and add another item.

Every test brings us closer to the real deal.


The simpling valve does not allow full boiler pressure to the LP engine, as that would cause the engine to basically run away (owing to the much larger cylinder volume). On the mallets that I have dealt with, there is a pressure reducing valve in line with the simpling valve, and the steam line to the LP engine is only about 2" diameter.


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 Post subject: Re: WMSR / C&O #1309 lift - 10 June 2020
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 10:12 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6405
Location: southeastern USA
Brian Wise wrote:
The actual pistons had already been installed, as could be seen by the piston rods connected to the crossheads.


But pistons may not have been installed yet on the rods. Not saying that's true in this case.... If I were going to blow out the steam passages I wouldn't have anything in the cylinders and would blank off the ends of the valve chest. Your mileage may vary, of course........ I got bit in the ass by not having things open once and don't need that experience again.

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“God, the beautiful racket of it all: the sighing and hissing, the rattle and clack of the cars over the rails. These were the sounds that made America the greatest country on earth." Jonathan Evison


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 Post subject: Re: WMSR / C&O #1309 lift - 10 June 2020
PostPosted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:25 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:37 am
Posts: 46
Dave wrote:
Brian Wise wrote:
The actual pistons had already been installed, as could be seen by the piston rods connected to the crossheads.


But pistons may not have been installed yet on the rods. Not saying that's true in this case.... If I were going to blow out the steam passages I wouldn't have anything in the cylinders and would blank off the ends of the valve chest. Your mileage may vary, of course........ I got bit in the ass by not having things open once and don't need that experience again.


You're right. Just because I see piston rods in place doesn't mean the pistons are on them. I don't have an opinion one way or the other on their method; just curiosity.


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 Post subject: Re: WMSR / C&O #1309 lift - 10 June 2020
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:54 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:41 pm
Posts: 540
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Brian Wise wrote:
hamster wrote:
For this test and clean out, they would have set the locomotive up so the front engine was running "simple". That is, it would get full pressure steam just like the rear engine. Apparently something was not right with the simpling valve because the front engine was not getting any steam. But that's why they run the tests. Take a bunch of items off the punch list and add another item.

Every test brings us closer to the real deal.


The simpling valve does not allow full boiler pressure to the LP engine, as that would cause the engine to basically run away (owing to the much larger cylinder volume). On the mallets that I have dealt with, there is a pressure reducing valve in line with the simpling valve, and the steam line to the LP engine is only about 2" diameter.

Thanks for the clarification! I knew about the simpling valve but did not realize (or maybe forgot!) that it had to have some kind of a restrictor. Makes perfect sense as the low pressure cylinder uses a much larger volume of steam to produce the same work as the high pressure cylinders.


Last edited by hamster on Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: WMSR / C&O #1309 lift - 10 June 2020
PostPosted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 6:16 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 1409
Location: Philadelphia, PA
I was aboard an Australian NSW Class 60 Garrett-hauled train that had a dry pipe failure at one end. It was not possible to isolate the failed end and operate the locomotive using the other end. The whole engine was dead and needed towed in.

Phil Mulligan


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