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 Post subject: Re: Santa Fe Southern to return
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 1:09 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 2041
Location: Southern California
Tom F wrote:
I once heard the Santa Fe Southern was built on Family ties.
No, it is an former branch of the AT&SF that was sold off.

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 Post subject: Re: Santa Fe Southern to return
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 7:28 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:27 am
Posts: 23
Location: Baltimore, MD
Michael Gross is in fact a railroad enthusiast. Per Wikipedia,

"Gross is a passionate railfan with an extensive collection of railroad antiques. He is an amateur railroad historian, photographer, modeler, and part-owner in a working railroad, the Santa Fe Southern Railway, a former branch line of the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway which operates between Lamy and Santa Fe, New Mexico. He is also the spokesman for the World's Greatest Hobby campaign sponsored by the Model Railroad Industry Association that promotes the hobby of model railroading. He has also been a spokesperson for Operation Lifesaver, a campaign promoting safety at railroad grade crossings.

Since 2009, Gross has been "celebrity spokesman" for the B&O Railroad Museum in Baltimore, Maryland.[11] He is the host of the B&O Railroad Museum Television Network on YouTube. He is also a member of the Santa Fe Railway Historical Society."

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 Post subject: Re: Santa Fe Southern to return
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 10:26 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Northern Illinois
railfan261 wrote:
Michael Gross is the actor's name, and he's also famous for Burt Gummer from the Tremors franchise. I wonder why he is no longer a part of Santa Fe Southern?


And you'll note there has never been a recorded instance if a graboid attack on a Santa Fe Southern train, thanks to Burt.

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 Post subject: Re: Santa Fe Southern to return
PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2020 11:02 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11482
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
RTL-III wrote:
"He said his real motivation for being part of the acquisition group is so he can stand in the engine car and blow the whistle."

So it's a free country and if you have the money you can buy whatever you want, but it would have been nice to see this railroad go to someone with a genuine interest in railroading and not these goofballs.


I've been contacted by two sci-fi/fantasy news writers who know me about the purchase now that certain online venues have reported the story, in about exactly the tone implied above.

I can't say a word for Mr. Martin, but as I explained to the two writers, Mr. Gross--even though he has supposedly divested himself of his interest in the SFS--is still at last report a literally card-carrying member of at least one railroad historical/modeling society, in addition to his past work with the B&O Railroad Museum.


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 Post subject: Re: Santa Fe Southern to return
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 12:42 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 1477
It’s a newspaper article. They interview an engineer at a railroad museum and say things like “all he cares about is blowing the whistle and feeling like a kid” - that’s the emotional angle. In reality that engineer has shoveled a lot of coal and worked a lot of “shop time” either as a volunteer, or a pretty low hourly wage. It’s wayyyyy more than that, but that’s not what writers care about.


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 Post subject: Re: Santa Fe Southern to return
PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2020 4:54 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:55 pm
Posts: 985
Location: Warren, PA
Not surprisingly, the pandemic totally shut down the Rail Runner....

https://www.riometro.org/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=200

It's an interesting service - was up there a couple years ago. But the cost of building a 'new railroad' down the middle of the expressway median with all the bridges, overpasses, etc. was fairly mind-boggling. It's built like a metropolitan light rail system, only heavy rail and it's out across the desert....that 599 station is like a mirage in the desert.

The 'Legal Tender Saloon' across from the Lamy Depot is apparently still in business; that's Allan Affeldt of La Posada (Winslow) fame. That's somebody that really has a dog in the fight for preservation here. At one time I thought he was interested in this project as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Santa Fe Southern to return
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 1:30 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:12 am
Posts: 569
Location: Somewhere off the coast of New England
RTL-III wrote:
"He said his real motivation for being part of the acquisition group is so he can stand in the engine car and blow the whistle."

Uh...

So it's a free country and if you have the money you can buy whatever you want, but it would have been nice to see this railroad go to someone with a genuine interest in railroading and not these goofballs.
Rather than have these "goofballs" run the railroad are you willing to reach for your chequebook?

From what we can see they have a genuine interest in preserving what is an historical artifact even though it has close to zero commercial value as a 'real' railroad. Its true value is cultural and historical. It gave us the 'Santa Fe' in Atchison Topeka and Santa Fe and that has a place in the broader American culture. Can any of you envision a Lionel F unit with "LAMY" in the herald or a similar large neon sign over Chicago?

From a conventional business case standpoint there is absolutely nothing there. Historically Lamy exists solely as the connecting point and these days there is even real case for moving the Amtrak connecting bus to Kewa (the Rail Runner station closest to the junction between the two lines). Short of a new industrial operation directly accessing the line there is zero potential for freight service.

For the line to survive in private ownership as the treasure it is the owners have to think not only outside of the railfan box but outside of the railroad box. Don't forget that the three most successful commercial tourist/heritage railroads in the country acknowledge that they are in the entertainment business.

All three of the owners seem to be successful in their chosen fields so give them a chance, and, given the nature of this forum and its participants, to refer the buyers as "goofballs" because one of them is honest enough to admit that he wants to blow the whistle is easily one of the most hypocritical statements I have ever seen or heard, and I have been practicing law for half a century.

GME

(Who will willingly disclose that his first (and at least for now last) ride on the line was in 1959 when a cross-country trip on the Super Chief was interrupted by two nights at the LaFonda (of course it was a Fred Harvey property) because his bride of about a week wanted to see Santa Fe. The connecting service was already a motor coach and a truck for baggage and express. There was still a daily except Sunday mixed which did not show as a connecting train. Julie had the hotel pack us a picnic lunch. A very amused conductor accepted our tickets and we rode in what I recall was one of the ATSF's drover combines. We spent the afternoon chatting with agent at Lamy, exploring, and train watching until the westbound Super Chief arrived. Since the mixed came off not long after we might well have been the last passengers to make that connection by train.)

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 Post subject: Re: Santa Fe Southern to return
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 8:34 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:55 pm
Posts: 985
Location: Warren, PA
Talk about the devil is in the details. Rail Runner is in the middle of PTC installation as well....
https://trn.trains.com/news/news-wire/2 ... ail-runner

The last 4.5 miles going into Santa Fe is on Rail Runner, so that would possibly (probably?) subject any excursion locomotive running into the depot area to PTC control status. ASLRA has been pretty good on boosting shortline grants for PTC service overlaps but is anybody currently in the excursion business subject to PTC in a similar situation?

There appears to actually be one remaining industrial siding in Santa Fe with a turnout, to what appears to be a beer distributor, and there's some cars stuffed up in it, including what looks like from the air to be a caboose (2017 dated aerial shot).


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 Post subject: Re: Santa Fe Southern to return
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2020 9:49 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:12 am
Posts: 569
Location: Somewhere off the coast of New England
If I recall correctly SFS was restricted from running on the shared track on the same days when Rail Runner was operating. The switch is about two tenths of a mile south of the Rodeo Road Crossing. Just to make life interesting, as though PTC alone isn't enough, somewhere probably immediately south of Rodeo Road there should be a conversion post between the SFS and Rail Runner showing SFS 14 = NMRX 18.32 and as you work your way into town on the FRA map the line mileposts are SFS but the crossing mileposts are NMRX. To make life even more interesting the adjacent rail-trail has its own set of crossing numbers indicating the legal, if wholly impractical, possibility of obtaining a Certificate of Public Necessity and Convenience and then building a new separate railroad as the ATSF Santa Fe Branch.

Randy - Looking at google maps this morning what is marked as 2020 imagery shows the SFS equipment at the station and no indication of an industrial spur.

GME

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 Post subject: Re: Santa Fe Southern to return
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 12:20 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:07 am
Posts: 737
Location: Philadelphia Pa
Brian Norden wrote:
Tom F wrote:
I once heard the Santa Fe Southern was built on Family ties.
No, it is an former branch of the AT&SF that was sold off.



Well, that joke went over like a rock on floating on water, while the sound of a rack of clanging cymbals falling to the ground could be heard. ....


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 Post subject: Re: Santa Fe Southern to return
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 1:25 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 612
Location: Pure Michigan
Trainlawyer wrote:
Randy - Looking at google maps this morning what is marked as 2020 imagery shows the SFS equipment at the station and no indication of an industrial spur.


Randy is referring to the Premier Distributing spur. The equipment stored on the spur is an old Conrail bay window caboose modified with a cupola, a passenger car, and a boxcar.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Premi ... 105.958945

I have not personally been to Santa Fe since 2016 (and the most recent aerial imagery is from 2017) so I am not sure if they are still there.

I seem to have one of the only photos of this equipment at Premier, which is unfortunately a crummy shot I took from the Railrunner.
Image


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 Post subject: Re: Santa Fe Southern to return
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 1:45 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 2279
junior wrote:
Brian Norden wrote:
Tom F wrote:
I once heard the Santa Fe Southern was built on Family ties.
No, it is an former branch of the AT&SF that was sold off.



Well, that joke went over like a rock on floating on water, while the sound of a rack of clanging cymbals falling to the ground could be heard. ....

I got it, family ties instead of wood or concrete. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-4-gLlF0uw


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 Post subject: Re: Santa Fe Southern to return
PostPosted: Sat May 30, 2020 6:48 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:12 pm
Posts: 23
That was a clever joke. Very punny. Family Ties was one of my favorite TV shows growing up. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Santa Fe Southern to return
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2020 11:25 am 

Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:42 am
Posts: 68
Location: Either behind my desk or on my phone
Thank you, I found the Premier Distributing spur. There is quite a bit of gravel over the spur but it does appear connected and at least on Bing the SFS equipment is in a deep enough shadow that you have to look to find it.

A word of warning on Googles imagery. The pictures which are stitched together tend to be contemporaneous but aren't always. the imagery date is really a copyright date for the composite rather the date of the image. As of today Google Maps aerial view of Tuckahoe NJ with a date of 2020 shows the URHS F units which are really being eaten by kudzu along side an ex Iowa Pacific line while Google Earth does not show them. Bing, also with a date of 2020, also shows them in Tuckahoe.

Meghan

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 Post subject: Re: Santa Fe Southern to return
PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2020 12:29 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:59 pm
Posts: 644
Meghan wrote:
A word of warning on Googles imagery. The pictures which are stitched together tend to be contemporaneous but aren't always. the imagery date is really a copyright date for the composite rather the date of the image. As of today Google Maps aerial view of Tuckahoe NJ with a date of 2020 shows the URHS F units which are really being eaten by kudzu along side an ex Iowa Pacific line while Google Earth does not show them. Bing, also with a date of 2020, also shows them in Tuckahoe.

Google Earth Pro (it's free) has a "View Historical Data" option which gives some access to historical imagery.

Older imagery often has lower resolution, but the actual dates of the imagery are given.

I was trained in classical aerial photo interpretation, and this "new" technology is amazing.


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