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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:02 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:32 pm
Posts: 68
Kelly,

Admirable. I suspect that (from what I am reading on the subject) that the issue is that even the companies that are trying to tool up....are still in that mode...."tooling up". I watch MFG and I am not seeing (maybe my business is in the wrong side of MFG.com) a huge demand for....parts X-Y-Z to finish a project. I suspect that you may be ahead of the curve. Kelly, are you guys signed up in MFG.com? If not, you may start there and put yourselves out as a CNC "fast track" if you think you can be a fast track. I think they have parameters for what you have to have in terms of production ability to be considered "fast track".

Wasatch isn't no "fast track".... (unless you have a interchange freight car, then we have a fast track for that..... :-)

Kindly,

JohnE.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:08 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 11497
Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
It happens that I spoke with a couple small manufacturers in other "specialized" trades (for example, an archery equipment manufacturer), in states that haven't shut down everything region-wide or statewide (YET). All of them are able to practice (for the most part) "personal spacing," and have ordered any employee even related to anyone with even a sore throat or sniffle not to come in.

The message I got from them about potential shutdown seemed like it all came from the same script or radio talk-show host:
"We will close down only when men with guns come to our doors with a written court order. Our employees need the income just in case."

And, yes, at least one of those companies is desperate to turn over whatever production they can to the "greater good," but running into the same logistics and organization problem as Brother Anderson........... someone has to tell them what to make, to what specs, and where to send them.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:07 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:57 am
Posts: 255
Location: Sandpoint, ID
PMC wrote:
mjanssen wrote:
Solving the COVID 19 ventilator problem video:

https://youtu.be/ntFQay9cy8Y

Be very skeptical of anyone who says "the problem is just regulation". Regulation = confirmation. We generally depend on government to regulate, i.e. confirm, that devices, medicines etc that could cause serious illness or death but where the differences cannot be seen by the end customers' eye are produced competently. In the field this board covers, for example, steam locomotive frames are not really regulated, but steam locomotive boilers are heavily regulated. Or on track, ballast is not really regulated, but rail is. Regulation is a solution to the tendency of those who would be paying for doing it right to cut corners to save money, or to use deceptive advertising to sell things that could cause illness or death. As this video notes, there is a fine line between properly inflating a sick lung and damaging it, and we don't want someone's brother in law Clyde building a ventilator using kitchen implements and then damaging someone's lungs.


Actually it is a commercial product trademarked by Percussionaie that has been around since the 1970's. What the guy is showing is that a Phasitron, the mass-produced semi-disposable (6 months service) plastic part which precisely provides lung expansion, secretion clearance, and oxygen can be operated by much less sophisticated means than the IPV-1C Flow Ventilator. It can basically be a field-assembled parts list. Is that ideal? - NO, does it achieve the objective in a crisis - YES. Leaders in innovation, war, and other types of crises always push boundaries. You cannot succeed or fail more than the common man without increased risk. Regulation comes from quantifying what worked after people's failures. Many succeeded and there was no subsequent regulation; many failed and there came to be regulation. How do you imagine someone initially figured out a steam locomotive would run better with more boiler pressure- and how much pressure for a given design was too much? If no one had risked, we might still be pulling trains with horses.

Dr. Bird invented the HFP Ventilator in the 1940's (which was used for high altitude flight by the military, freed people of iron lungs, and saved lives of countless people) and sold his company "Bird" to 3M in 1978 and then started Percussionaire with the Phasitron invention at its core in 1983.

http://percussionaire.com/products/ipv-1c


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 29, 2020 12:37 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:57 am
Posts: 255
Location: Sandpoint, ID
Ventec and General Motors (GM)
Partnership to accelerate ventilator manufacturing

Ventec's ventilator has a battery and onboard compressor

Join the Team!
Apply for a position in the Kokomo, Indiana plant to work with Ventec and General Motors to address the COVID-19 pandemic.

Apply today: Kokomo, Indiana • Bothell, Washington

https://www.venteclife.com/page/covid19-coronavirus-ventec-life-systems-stands-ready-to-help-with-vocsn


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 12:41 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2230
Kelly, Matt et al.

I do not see you registered in the MIT e-Vent development effort yet, and I wish you would be.

I have not seen this mentioned yet here; it's a reasonable guide to what is required of a first-generation response device. Note in particular what is involved in developing, and enhancing, a bilevel CPAP device to function effectively as a respirator in the necessary clinical context of ARDS.

https://www.aarc.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/guidance-document-SARS-COVID19.pdf

Compare this carefully with the provisions of the current Food and Drug enforcement policy for ventilators, accessories and other respiratory devices at

https://e-vent.mit.edu/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/Ventilators-Enforcement-Guidance.pdf (I provide the MIT URL as I suspect it will be carefully and timely updated as things change)

A great early place for Kelly to address, as it has specific meaning for a range of railroaders, is a correct design of vent filter for the 'exhaust bypass' of a bilevel CPAP device that traps and passivates any exhaled virus and liquids, while allowing relatively low back-pressure against expulsion (which can be damaging to lungs severely affected by ARDS). This involves media that can absorb a large collective volume of moisture and effectively bind any suspended particulates, even small ones, after absorption, without significantly impairing expulsive flow (and providing an assured mechanical seal to prevent even small leaks even after repeated blows or shocks to the device on which the valve is applied). It should be easy to apply and then service, in the field, possibly by non-medically-trained people, and one basic design of 'filter' should be easily and unconfusingly adaptable to however many different configurations of ventilators needing exhaust valve filtration -- as well as a wide selection of N95 masks that up to now are woefully incompetent in this critical respect -- as possible.

I also think, in the intermediate term, nonpowered source of compressed oxygen-enriched air and control gas needs to be provided, in a way that can be independent of electrical supply even from battery or renewable sources. That will need to develop adequate volume at a pressure sufficient to optimize molecular-sieve concentration (with the bypass nitrogen retained for control or energy recovery) and this will involve an adjustable lightweight 'bicycle' frame and shiftable gearing to power an appropriate combined compressor and variable-excitation (and possibly switched-reluctance) generator. Even short-term adaptation of things like spinning-bike frames might help in a crisis, and the 'adaptive reuse' of much of the devices is fairly easy to predict.

Is this component something anyone has interest in producing?

https://www.isinnova.it/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/varianti.jpg

This is a key adaptive valve that suits a noninvasive full-face mask to work as an 'unregulated' assistive ventilation device, in Italy. The developers are patenting it but say they will keep rights to the design fully open. There are some key drawbacks in potential utility for patients with ARDS, but they mostly relate to the Decathlon mask (which was a snorkeling mask being quickly and inexpensively repurposed) and changes there would be advantageous if inexpensive and easily implemented.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:57 am
Posts: 255
Location: Sandpoint, ID
Kelly,

I think this design is right up your alley!

https://virginorbit.com/virgin-orbit-uci-and-ut-austin-design-new-mass-producible-ventilator-for-covid-19-patients/


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 10:18 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:57 pm
Posts: 106
The most highly coveted 1911 (.45 acp) pistols, were the ones made by Singer Sewing Machine due to the high quality of their manufacturing.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 6404
Location: southeastern USA
Singer also made electric tools for Craftsman. When Black and Decker took over, quality suffered..... hang on to all your old metal bodied Singer made Craftsman tools.

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 3:52 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 2230
Another effort that is 'ramping up' is the CoVent-19 Challenge:

https://www.coventchallenge.com/

Anyone who might want to be a partner or sponsor should e-mail coventchallenge@gmail.com

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 5:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:12 am
Posts: 569
Location: Somewhere off the coast of New England
Faller? wrote:
The most highly coveted 1911 (.45 acp) pistols, were the ones made by Singer Sewing Machine due to the high quality of their manufacturing.
Ithaca Arms, Springfield Armory, Union Switch & Signal and Remington-Rand (typewriters, not shotguns) also manufactured 1911s. (The one in my desk is modern Colt Officers' Model. The one Father brought home in 1945 is a well-worn, un-rebuilt, Springfield which he picked up in the Philippines.)

A million years or so ago, in the days when the Army had rifles with wooden stocks which weighed as much as a five-year-old (M1, M1A, M14 and, God help us all, the BAR) and I was addressed progressively as Dumbass, then as Lieutenant, and finally as Captain, some of the most prized rifles in various Arms Rooms were the handful of scoped Springfield 1903s, many of which were not Springfields at all, but were head stamped 'Smith-Corona Typewriter Company ... 1942' which were emergency manufacture for World War Two. At least a few of these stuck around through the 1990s.

The US-built Vietnamese Army half-tracks (which were WWII Lend-Lease to the Free French) were built by International Harvester (even though it was a White Motor Company design based on their Scout Car) with bodies by the Baldwin Locomotive Works. The bodies for the White Scout Car were built by Diebold Lock and Safe. Baldwin's Tender Shop had a side business during the Depression building the bodies for armoured cars, both for the Army and the Post Office Department and expanded this (as did the other steam locomotive companies) to the construction of tanks during the war.

American Bantam, formerly American Austin, developed a four-wheel drive combat car which was accepted by the War Department. Bantam built slightly over 2,500 Bantam Combat Cars but did not have the needed production capacity so most were manufactured by Willys and Ford as the Truck, 1⁄4-ton, 4×4, Command Reconnaissance while Bantam turned its production line to churning out trailers. Roughly half of Bantam’s production was sent to England and the design emerged again after the war as the Austin Champ, which became the British Army version of the Jeep.

These are just some examples. There was quite a bit of trading around of design and production capacity in order to meet the production needs.

If this is going to be treated as being on a war footing I think the question here may not be, “What can the Strasburg do per se to help build ventilators?”, but, “What can the Strasburg (or any other similar shop) do to support the companies which have had to divert their normal production lines and still need to manufacture their own essential products?”

GME

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 7:25 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2570
Location: Strasburg, PA
mjanssen wrote:
Thanks for the tip, Matt! I emailed them, and did get a reply. We're not hired yet, but I did get a reply, which is a first in all of our outreach during this crisis.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:34 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 2570
Location: Strasburg, PA
We have received an RFQ from a local hospital system, but not the kind we wanted or were expecting.

They want us to price supplying them ASAP with multi-shelf wheeled carts about 32" x 84", with rollers on each shelf. All sold out from the usual suppliers. We are going to whip one out this week to see how long it takes, and to see if they like our product.

What are they for? Storing bodies in the morgue. As the woman told Andrea, "We don't feel right stacking them on the floor."

Thought I'd put this out there for anyone who still might not be buying that Covid is some serious shit.


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 1:19 am 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 984
Location: Bucks County, PA
Kelly Anderson wrote:
We have received an RFQ from a local hospital system, but not the kind we wanted or were expecting.

They want us to price supplying them ASAP with multi-shelf wheeled carts about 32" x 84", with rollers on each shelf. All sold out from the usual suppliers. We are going to whip one out this week to see how long it takes, and to see if they like our product.

What are they for? Storing bodies in the morgue. As the woman told Andrea, "We don't feel right stacking them on the floor."

Thought I'd put this out there for anyone who still might not be buying that Covid is some serious shit.


Wow - definitely not what you wanted - but it's unfortunately important and brings in some revenue. Gotta do what you gotta do...

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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 08, 2020 7:29 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:24 pm
Posts: 113
Hate to say it, but consider making fork lift pockets on the lower level, very likely that they will need to be stacked in refrigerated trailers, which are being used as temporary morgue space.

This is not just a CoVID-19 issue, many counties in Ohio and other areas in the US have been using refrigerated trailers as morgue space since the increase in fatalities during the opiod pandemic


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 Post subject: Re: Ventilators, How Can We Help?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:24 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 2762
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
As can happen, new learning and methods can change priorities in a heartbeat (think cable railways). The demand for ventilators is dropping, not because people are not sick, but because the doctors have discovered better treatment methods.

Various doctor groups have discovered that rolling patients on to their side or stomach can dramatically improve oxygen levels without use of a ventilator.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/14/nyregion/new-york-coronavirus.html

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