It is currently Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:41 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Status of Strasburg RR # 7312
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:32 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:34 am
Posts: 485
Location: Boston, MA, but formerly Port Jefferson, NY (LIRR MP 57.5)
Brian Norden wrote:
CA1 wrote:
Whatever happened to the Long Island RR locomotive?
I seem to recall that Strasburg was doing contract work on a Long Island locomotive.


RMLI still hasn't raised the money required to move forward with LI 4-6-0 No. 39. Nothing is happening until then.

-Philip Marshall


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Status of Strasburg RR # 7312
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:19 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 598
philip.marshall wrote:
Brian Norden wrote:
CA1 wrote:
Whatever happened to the Long Island RR locomotive?
I seem to recall that Strasburg was doing contract work on a Long Island locomotive.


RMLI still hasn't raised the money required to move forward with LI 4-6-0 No. 39. Nothing is happening until then.

-Philip Marshall


Would be a great place to donate, there is no doubt Strasburg will do a great job with the restoration once the funds are in place. It’s a very neat locomotive that deserves to be among the steaming again!


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Status of Strasburg RR # 7312
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:56 am 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 756
Location: Bucks County, PA
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
philip.marshall wrote:
RMLI still hasn't raised the money required to move forward with LI 4-6-0 No. 39. Nothing is happening until then.

-Philip Marshall


Would be a great place to donate, there is no doubt Strasburg will do a great job with the restoration once the funds are in place. It’s a very neat locomotive that deserves to be among the steaming again!


Here's the issue with LIRR 39. When the Railroad Museum of Long Island entered the agreement in March of 2013, they seemed to have a lot of ducks in a row and some decent momentum on their side. There was a lot of excitement going around. Now? Well, let's take a look.

"In March 2013, the RMLI entered into a restoration partnership with the Strasburg Rail Road Company of Strasburg, PA. The RMLI must raise +$1,000,000.00 in fifteen years. Following that goal, Strasburg will restore the #39 in three years time." (as seen on http://rmli.org/our-collection/lirr-ste ... motive-39/) - where are they now with the fundraising progress? According to an official Facebook post by the "Steam Up LIRR 39" group in September 2019: "As of this month we have raised $233,549.00 on our way to one million dollars. Donations are always appreciated. Thank you."

So we're approaching the seven year mark, and the museum has managed to get a little over 1/5 of the funds raised. Donate, yes. I have. I'd urge others to do the same. However, things aren't going so well for the fundraising, IMHO.

_________________
Big Jim Video Productions
Morrisville, PA

http://www.bigjimvideo.com/home.html
http://www.youtube.com/user/bigjim4life


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Status of Strasburg RR # 7312
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 7:24 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:01 pm
Posts: 119
bigjim4life wrote:
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
philip.marshall wrote:
RMLI still hasn't raised the money required to move forward with LI 4-6-0 No. 39. Nothing is happening until then.

-Philip Marshall


Would be a great place to donate, there is no doubt Strasburg will do a great job with the restoration once the funds are in place. It’s a very neat locomotive that deserves to be among the steaming again!


Here's the issue with LIRR 39. When the Railroad Museum of Long Island entered the agreement in March of 2013, they seemed to have a lot of ducks in a row and some decent momentum on their side. There was a lot of excitement going around. Now? Well, let's take a look.

"In March 2013, the RMLI entered into a restoration partnership with the Strasburg Rail Road Company of Strasburg, PA. The RMLI must raise +$1,000,000.00 in fifteen years. Following that goal, Strasburg will restore the #39 in three years time." (as seen on http://rmli.org/our-collection/lirr-ste ... motive-39/) - where are they now with the fundraising progress? According to an official Facebook post by the "Steam Up LIRR 39" group in September 2019: "As of this month we have raised $233,549.00 on our way to one million dollars. Donations are always appreciated. Thank you."

So we're approaching the seven year mark, and the museum has managed to get a little over 1/5 of the funds raised. Donate, yes. I have. I'd urge others to do the same. However, things aren't going so well for the fundraising, IMHO.


Keep in mind that Strasburg wrote in a 5% escalation in cost per year into the contract. Even though RMLI has raised a significant amount, they are unfortunately further from the goal than ever.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Status of Strasburg RR # 7312
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 10:15 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:27 pm
Posts: 478
Location: Milford,Mass
Hi All
Someone asked about the Long Island # 39, I am pretty sure this is her Boiler sitting on trucks, at Strasburg, Pat.
Attachment:
File comment: Photo by Pat Fahey
DSCN0147.JPG # 2.jpg
DSCN0147.JPG # 2.jpg [ 80.87 KiB | Viewed 994 times ]


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Status of Strasburg RR # 7312
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:19 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 4204
Location: Maine
LIRR 39 is in limbo until funding is raised to fully restore the great locomotive. Significant pieces of the restoration have been undertaken by Strasburg, but we can't expect the railroad to restore the G5s without compensation. Major parts of the G5s remain on Long Island, and need to be shipped to the railroad so if a big check should arrive, the restoration can continue. If I may editorialize for a moment, and I am NOT criticizing the RMLI, two things would get this project back in the que. 1) RMLI needs to get an assertive fund raising plan in focus. This means a full time manager, addressing businesses and public groups about the project, and assuring them that investment will eventually be returned. Grants, foundations, memorial gifts, all these need to be undertaken by people who aren't tired of the drill. You have to show regular progress in order to show investment pays off. 2) Every Pennsy steam fan in the country should donate to getting this finished, and finished correctly for the long term. No better shop exists than Strasburg, and the opportunity to see one of these superb Belpaire giants running is a worthwhile goal to pursue.

CNR 7312, has significance to the success story of the Strasburg, and holds a special, if not emotional place in the hearts of those who pull the strings. In the meanwhile, keeping three active steam locomotives running, inviting in a grand guest (N&W 611), and doing contract service for many others seems like a delicate juggling act.
LIRR G5s is only one of three significant locomotives behind the Strasburg shops which deserve attention. Nobody should forget Reading Camelback 1187, nor CPR 972.

So maybe we should ask, "Buddy, can you spare $10,000,000"?

_________________
"It's only impossible until it's done." -Nelson Mandela


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Status of Strasburg RR # 7312
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 11:35 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 598
Minor correction- Strasburg has 4 steam locomotives they keep in operation. The fourth being Thomas.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Status of Strasburg RR # 7312
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:30 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 499
Richard Glueck wrote:
1) RMLI needs to get an assertive fund raising plan in focus. This means a full time manager, addressing businesses and public groups about the project, and assuring them that investment will eventually be returned. Grants, foundations, memorial gifts, all these need to be undertaken by people who aren't tired of the drill. You have to show regular progress in order to show investment pays off. 2) Every Pennsy steam fan in the country should donate to getting this finished, and finished correctly for the long term.


Great observations from a person who is walking the walk and doing it quite well. As one who had fond memories of climbing around sister engine 35 when it was in Eisenhower Park, I'd love to see a G5s properly preserved. That said, this undertaking has several critical challenges that do not encumber your efforts with 470.

I agree that regular progress is important to show ROI, but in this case, many of the stakeholders your group relies upon for support in the 470 work are out of reach for the managers of the 39 restoration. 470 will be operating in the community, and NESCO has been able to skillfully cultivate monetary, in-kind, and volunteer labor donations from the community because the community can see a benefit (ROI) in having 470 operate. With 470 operating in the area, it will be a means of educating the current generation in how steam-powered rail transport impacted ME's social and economic structure and in the skills necessary to operate and maintain a steam locomotive. It will also be a fun local attraction for the people to enjoy. For the base of your support in the business community, the additional return will be the tourist dollars an operational 470 will bring in.

The restoration of 39 will result in its operation on the SRR. With so many entertainment choices, I can not see many people schlepping from Nassau or Suffolk to Strasburg just to see a steam locomotive that ran on LI, especially as those who have any recollection of steam on LI become fewer and fewer. Local (Long Island) educational and cultural impact would be negligible. Local economic impact will be non-existent. So how does one sell an investment with little or no return?

You recommend that Pennsy steam fans should be all in on the 39 restoration. Restoration projects have a much greater likelihood of success when they have the support of the general, non-railfan public. This comes full circle as people become interested participants in rail preservation through exposure to a preservation effort or a preserved artifact. Because of the remote nature of the 39 operational restoration and intended operation, the reliance on the support of the preservation community becomes imbalanced.

There are many well-run (470 is at or near the top of the list) operational restorations, some of which are near completion. In a world of limited resources, why the 39 vs any of the other efforts, many of which appear to be more well-conceived and to have a greater likelihood of success? Narrowing back down to Pennsy fans, the Pennsy has the greatest representation of preserved steam locomotives of any railroad in the country. Wouldn't a legacy carrier that is less well represented be more worthy of donation? If one really needs an operational Pennsy steam locomotive, of the three current efforts, the new build T1 appears to be the most well run and is the most transparent to donor investors.

I understand why the people behind the 39 restoration made the decisions that they did. Unfortunately, these decisions resulted in a restoration program structure that removes most of the support base available to them. This is a case where too much emphasis was placed on operational preservation in the decision-making process. I'd love to see 39 in steam on Long Island, but it was not going to happen in the political climate the people behind the 39 project were facing at the time they decided on this path. A professional cosmetic restoration of 39, similar to what RRM of PA did with PRR 460, with prominent indoor display on Long Island, would have kept the effort local and resulted in a greater educational, cultural, and economic benefit to the local community. It would have also done more to create a base of interest that possibly could have been cultivated down the road to lead to something more if the stewards of the artifact believed that additional investment towards operation would have correlated to a commensurate increase in the interpretive and economic value of 39.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Status of Strasburg RR # 7312
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 12:42 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 2124
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
That's a 0-6-0, how plausible is it that SRR would go to a lot of trouble to get it running again? Their summer trains might be a bit much for something that small, especially with all the other much more powerful locomotives they already have.
I completely understand why it would rate low on any list to get running again.

_________________
Lee Bishop


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Status of Strasburg RR # 7312
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:05 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:47 pm
Posts: 118
Location: Arizona
Additionally, 7312 is essentially a 10-15 mph locomotive. Strasburg trains need to run 15-20 to make the schedule.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Status of Strasburg RR # 7312
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:20 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 3:07 pm
Posts: 590
Location: B'more Maryland
Makes you wonder if there'd be a better home for her.

Either across the street (as a pioneer in successful heritage railroading) or somewhere where 10-15mph makes sense.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Status of Strasburg RR # 7312
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:39 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:28 pm
Posts: 444
Location: Northern WV
Scranton Yard wrote:
I'd love to see 39 in steam on Long Island, but it was not going to happen in the political climate the people behind the 39 project were facing at the time they decided on this path. A professional cosmetic restoration of 39, similar to what RRM of PA did with PRR 460, with prominent indoor display on Long Island, would have kept the effort local and resulted in a greater educational, cultural, and economic benefit to the local community. It would have also done more to create a base of interest that possibly could have been cultivated down the road to lead to something more if the stewards of the artifact believed that additional investment towards operation would have correlated to a commensurate increase in the interpretive and economic value of 39.


I don't know much about how expensive steam locomotives are to restore, but with the near quarter million they have raised, would that be enough for a complete cosmetic restoration? Of course, that would have to be cleared with those who have donated expecting an operating locomotive.

A shot I took from a Greenport excursion on a very soggy day in 1986. Doesn't look much different at Strasburg.


Attachments:
186b0500.jpg
186b0500.jpg [ 57.08 KiB | Viewed 808 times ]

_________________
Roger Cole
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Status of Strasburg RR # 7312
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 1:41 pm 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 756
Location: Bucks County, PA
Ed Kapuscinski wrote:
Makes you wonder if there'd be a better home for her.

Either across the street (as a pioneer in successful heritage railroading) or somewhere where 10-15mph makes sense.


There are plenty of local smaller area railroads which could use an 0-6-0 for their own steam operations - if it were to become available...

_________________
Big Jim Video Productions
Morrisville, PA

http://www.bigjimvideo.com/home.html
http://www.youtube.com/user/bigjim4life


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Status of Strasburg RR # 7312
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:10 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:51 pm
Posts: 147
Location: Massachusetts
p51 wrote:
That's a 0-6-0, how plausible is it that SRR would go to a lot of trouble to get it running again? Their summer trains might be a bit much for something that small, especially with all the other much more powerful locomotives they already have.


While there may be other practical issues with operating the 7312 in regular service, it certainly has been done historically. Of the 5 engines that have operated at Strasburg in the last 15 years, the 7312 ranks 3rd on the list in terms of tractive effort. I believe she has roughly 31,000 lbs. The CN 89 which regularly handles the 2nd train during 2-train operation, is only about 26,000 lbs. The BEDT 15 ("Thomas") is just behind the 89. In 2008 and 2009, Strasburg regularly ran the 7312 on the second train during summer, 2-train operation. I'm just guessing that she had operating days to use up before an inspection came due, and that's what they were doing. That second train had the big, heavy President's car on it, and I never saw the 7312 slip. I can't say the same for the 89.

In the past, I have heard what others have mentioned.....that certain officer-level folks had an attachment to the locomotive because of its historical significance to the railroad. Over the past few years however, there have been some management changes, so the winds may be blowing from a different direction. As I noted in an earlier post, never say never until you see the scrapper cutting up your favorite engine. Everything changes over time. But I personally would be very surprised to see Strasburg willing to part with 7312 and I treasure the photos I have of it running there.

/Kevin Madore


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Status of Strasburg RR # 7312
PostPosted: Fri Jan 31, 2020 2:26 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2005 2:13 pm
Posts: 240
Okay, I'll bite. I've seen this question come up way too many times to resist chiming in.

In the early 90's, the Strasburg Rail Road was hauling north of 400,000 passengers per year, with half-hour trains and 7:00 pm dinner trains running daily, all summer long. Nowadays, that number is closer to 300,000. Dinner trains are only run on Fridays and Saturdays, and the half-hour train is down to just Saturdays.

Additionally, the passing siding at Leaman Place received significant upgrades in 2011 & 2012. In years past, it could only comfortably accommodate an 8-car train. A 9-car train meant having to shove back a car-length to clear the switch. A 10-car train required a second locomotive for switching maneuvers. Given these restrictions, it wasn't uncommon for a half-hour extra to be added on holidays and peak days. Now, a single 10-car train is usually sufficient.

So, fewer trains due to lower ridership numbers and concurrent infrastructure upgrades = a diminished need for a fourth serviceable locomotive.

(Just my personal observations... take 'em for what they're worth.)


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 47 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: