RCD wrote:
So aperentely you can power an Acela with HEP from a standard locomotive so that does give an option to run in a museums setting
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| Who will save the acela? http://rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=43425 |
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| Author: | o484 [ Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who will save the acela? |
BigBoy 4023 wrote: Acela is just too new still in my book to be worthy of preservation. It's akin to preserving one of the big diesels in use currently. Robert Seeing as the Acela is arguably the first truly successful American high speed train, it is a very worthy of preservation, regardless of how new it is. |
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| Author: | psa188 [ Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who will save the acela? |
RCD wrote: Amtrak getting closer to rolling out their next-generation high-speed train. The question must be asked who will preserve an acela train set? Former Washington Post columnist Bob Levey preserved the spirit of "Acela" in these classic columns: https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... d0bceef8b6 https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/ ... f2d6ef7582 |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who will save the acela? |
o484 wrote: Seeing as the Acela is arguably the first truly successful American high speed train, it is a very worthy of preservation, regardless of how new it is. Many could make the case for the Metroliner instead--and have. Getting to the issue of preservation, as pointed out above preservation of any complete trainset--from the original Zephyrs or Flying Yankee to the Metroliners, APT, HST, and Shinkansens brings about their own logistical challenges. Given that the Amfleets they were supposed to largely replace are in far more dire need of retirement, I foresee Amtrak somehow cascading down cars or trainsets to lesser NEC/Harrisburg services, which may buy us more time yet. |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:29 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who will save the acela? |
BigBoy 4023 wrote: Acela is just too new still in my book to be worthy of preservation. It's akin to preserving one of the big diesels in use currently. If we took this "too new" attitude to heart universally, most of the last of big steam, and most of the first generation diesels, would not have been saved. UP Big Boys were all retired at around 15-18 years of age. N&W 611 was in service less than ten years. Alco PAs largely disappeared in about 15 years. Baldwin Centipedes, FM C-Liners, Sharks, etc.--all ten to fifteen years, and kept alive mostly by equipment trusts. The latter two cases may be examples of why we preserve the successful and ditch the unsuccessful. There were people who said (and still say ) Amtrak/commuter F40PHs are "too new." They are only "too new" to save if people, agencies, or corporations are still willing to pay six or seven figures apiece to keep them commercially operable. Nobody wanted steam in 1958. I could still find you a buyer for an F40PH at the right price and condition. An Acela, on the other hand, is going to be a difficult sell--but hardly impossible. |
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| Author: | EJ Berry [ Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who will save the acela? |
It has almost happened. The most numerous production passenger diesel is the E-7. Many were still in service when Amtrak came in, but only one has been preserved. How many FTA-B's are preserved? They're "the Diesel that did it." F40's too new? Their replacements are being replaced on Amtrak. As to Acela, a power car and a coach should suffice. Unless you have a 600 foot building for a whole train. Phil Mulligan |
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| Author: | filmteknik [ Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who will save the acela? |
IRM puts those buildings up like clockwork. LOL Not that I'm suggesting preserving more than a power car & coach. And someplace back East would be preferable of course. |
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| Author: | BigBoy 4023 [ Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:15 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who will save the acela? |
The UP 8500 gas turbines only ran 10 years before being retired. Originally 4 had been saved. IRM scrapped two of them. Can't compare steam to diesel or electric. Older generations could relate to steam in a way that you just can't relate to a diesel. That's way so many steam locomotives were preserved vs diesels. I do think it's odd the E7 didn't have more preserved examples. Robert |
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| Author: | PaulWWoodring [ Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who will save the acela? |
To properly represent an Acela train set you need to save four pieces: a motor, first-class car, cafe and coach. So, less than 400 feet of train. I don't think they would ever operate in preservation, which is fine. Just save them. I think that before they are completely retired they will operate in some kind of down-graded service, like Keystone service between Philly and Harrisburg, or maybe by NJT, SEPTA or MARC. They are not the failure that the HHP-8's were (one of those should be preserved as well), so I think they will have a secondary life for awhile. And I agree that an Amtrak museum would be great, but Amtrak didn't even officially support the Amtrak Historical Society that existed about 20 years ago, and in-fact wouldn't let them formally use the Amtrak name as part of their title (I forget what it was, they had to call themselves something else for business purposes, it was confusing when trying to write them a check for membership or convention booking), so I don't think you would get much support from them officially, at least. |
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| Author: | RCD [ Wed May 05, 2021 10:14 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who will save the acela? |
So aperentely you can power an Acela with HEP from a standard locomotive so that does give an option to run in a museums setting |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed May 05, 2021 11:56 am ] | ||
| Post subject: | Re: Who will save the acela? | ||
RCD wrote: So aperentely you can power an Acela with HEP from a standard locomotive so that does give an option to run in a museums setting
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| Author: | Connie4800 [ Wed May 05, 2021 12:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who will save the acela? |
BigBoy 4023 wrote: Acela is just too new still in my book to be worthy of preservation. Once, Mohawks and Mallets were too new; then E7s and F2s and FTs were too new, then second-gen diesels were too new. |
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| Author: | p51 [ Wed May 05, 2021 1:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who will save the acela? |
Same deal with the Cascades trains, two of them recently went in a funeral train down to CA for scrapping. I even missed getting photos of that train, and not even a single car will be preserved. It doesn't hit many nerves right now and you just can't save everything. So much stuff goes to the scrapper as nobody sees the value at the time. Think of all the steam that became razor blades; it was everywhere and common anywhere you went, so most of it wasn't 'special' and noteworthy of preservation. Really, where were the screaming masses when NYC put almost every steam engines they ever had to the torch? By this, I mean, where were the people/groups with the means to take more than the literal handful of NYC steam engines that survive today? How about steam debacles that were considered special but most got scrapped anyway, like Paulson Spence's collection in the 60s? Sure, in some cases, the owners are determined to scrap it all and want it out of collector/museum hands, but in most cases, if you'd showed up with the money back then, you'd have it on hand today. Kelly Anderson wrote: Seriously, if it's important enough to you to ask, then you better start organizing. It grates me to hear pleas for "someone else" to save something. You want it saved, you save it! Yeah, I really tire of the "someone" people talk about at times like that. Here in the Pac NW, I hear a lot of people say, "Bill Gates ought to step in and buy ______" when someone wants something done, as if the man was Santa Claus! There are people who make these things happen, and I'm surprised none of them seem to be saying, "I was the 'someone' that was called for..." |
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| Author: | RCD [ Wed May 05, 2021 1:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who will save the acela? |
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote: RCD wrote: So aperentely you can power an Acela with HEP from a standard locomotive so that does give an option to run in a museums setting Andre Barry an Amtrak employee who is well knowen on FB and is admin of a Acela page. I remember when that steam locomotive in Texas was going to get scrapped and it lit a fire under everyones ass. However the passenger locomotive that defined America cost to cost or Americas first high speed train... Mah... This is suposed to be railroad preservation we could save something it was truly historic and remarkable or we can just save another RS3 because that's what the old farts who run the place remember watching with their old man when they were kids. |
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| Author: | p51 [ Wed May 05, 2021 6:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who will save the acela? |
RCD wrote: This is suposed to be railroad preservation we could save something it was truly historic and remarkable or we can just save another RS3 because that's what the old farts who run the place remember watching with their old man when they were kids. It's just how it goes, people save what is special to them.For example, every time the Navy stops using an aircraft carrier, someone wants it for their town as a museum. Lacking any real plan to care for it, most either go to the scrappers or to the bottom to become a gunnery target or reef. But think of how few other ships get saved, who's crying for an oiler, smaller combat ship or any support vessels? Nope, always the big stuff people wanna save. With people like us, it's the stuff that tugs at the heart strings. Why do you think so many Big Boys and GG-1s were saved? |
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| Author: | Alexander D. Mitchell IV [ Wed May 05, 2021 8:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Who will save the acela? |
Here's your bigger challenge. Part of the reason that the Acelas are being retired outright, and NOT cascaded down to secondary service such as Keystone service to Harrisburg, converted to run behind the new Sprinters, etc.? Guess what's integral to the operation of the Acelas, according to an article in a current R&R or Trains? Windows 98. The equipment was designed to run with Win98 as an integral part of its operation. They apparently are NOT able to upgrade the hardware to a newer OS. Hey, how's that old Windows 98 laptop back in your closet running? Go ahead and check; I'll wait.................... OFFICIAL CORRECTION: The article in question is in error. A technician who helped keep the fleet running tells me the issue is Windows NT--better, but not by much. |
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