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 Post subject: Who will save the acela?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:05 pm
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Location: MA
Amtrak getting closer to rolling out their next-generation high-speed train. The question must be asked who will preserve an acela train set?


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 Post subject: Re: Who will save the acela?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:47 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1647
Location: Strasburg, PA
It looks like you will. You asked first.

Seriously, if it's important enough to you to ask, then you better start organizing. It grates me to hear pleas for "someone else" to save something. You want it saved, you save it!

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 Post subject: Re: Who will save the acela?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:57 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 386
Location: Danbury, CT
How’s the F40PH coming?

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 Post subject: Re: Who will save the acela?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:05 pm
Posts: 815
Location: MA
Kelly Anderson see the coment below yours for the anser to your question of why I don't take this on.


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 Post subject: Re: Who will save the acela?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:05 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 556
Location: Winters, TX
In the past we've saved the Flying Yankee and Mark Twain trainsets. How're things going on those projects? I think this falls under learning from past mistakes.

Is the Shelburne Falls Trolley Museum still looking for a backup for their trolley?


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 Post subject: Re: Who will save the acela?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:32 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 409
Very few high speed trains make it into preservation. I would not really expect an Acela to make it into preservation either. If talking about a full length set, that is a serious piece of track needed. Most organizations wouldn't have the room for a full Acela set. Maybe a power car and one of the passenger cars would be worth looking into? Acela is just too new still in my book to be worthy of preservation. It's akin to preserving one of the big diesels in use currently.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: Who will save the acela?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:21 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 419
As someone who grew up riding Amtrak, and has continued to ride Amtrak long distance I think an Amtrak museum would be pretty cool. Certainly something to consider.


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 Post subject: Re: Who will save the acela?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:33 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:10 pm
Posts: 15
Preservation of high-speed train sets has been a challenge here in Japan also, and the primary problem is always track space/real estate to keep an entire set intact.
I believe I am right in saying not a single 16-car, full-length set made it into preservation from any of the Class 0, 100, 300 or 500 Shinkansen sets that have come and go on the Tokaido mainline. Same story with the Tohoku/Jo'etsu line's Class 200, 400, E1 and E4 12- and 8-car sets.
Looking at this from an operational preservation perspective, this is much more serious a detriment to these Shinkansen sets then they are to say Acela or TGV, or to the UK's Class 43 HSTs, which could in theory operate with just the power cars pulling whatever rolling stock is available. Shinkansen EMU sets need at least a 4-car unit (in the case of Class 0 and 100. Class 500 onwards, 8 car minimum) to operate, as their equipment is spread out over the consist. The only preserved Shinkansen set that has even a theoretical chance of becoming operational again is the 4-car Class 0 set preserved in Kyoto.

With regards to preserving Acela, I therefore believe preserving "Maybe a power car and one of the passenger cars" as Robert puts it would be a very worthwhile endeavor, as it does not (correct me if I am wrong) completely preclude it from making movements under its own power when necessary.

Just my 2 yen, which given the current exchange rate is completely worthless.

-Shogo


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 Post subject: Re: Who will save the acela?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:48 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 409
Shogo, One train that I admire and would love to see saved is a Class 373 in full length. Eventually these Eurostar sets are going to be replaced completely. The problem is there is no place in the UK that could accommodate the full 18 car Eurostar. The train would have to be abbreviated by only saving a short consist of maybe 4 cars and the power cars.

One exception would be the APT train.

As a fan of the Shinkansen trains, I am also disappointed non of the original 0 series or later made it into preservation as a full set.

None of the diesel locomotives modified to haul the Shinkansen sets from what I can tell, seem to have been preserved either? I don't know much Japanese, so research is always hit & miss on finding factual information on the web.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: Who will save the acela?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:35 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 171
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Who knows? A Metroliner MU Car got preserved; so did an E60 and an AEM-7 so never say never.

Phil Mulligan


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 Post subject: Re: Who will save the acela?
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:56 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:10 pm
Posts: 15
Robert,

I agree entirely, the Class 373 is both historically significant and awe-inspiring, and it is a shame that the need for substantial real estate would prohibit their being preserved in their entirety. However, a truncated set like the one you outline can still operate without compromising its historical fabric and design by butchering on-board equipment (which is what would have to be done if we were to resurrect the 0 entombed in Kyoto), which I believe is a huge plus compared to abbreviated preservation of EMU high-speed sets.

I believe you are referring to Classe 912, and you are correct in saying that none survive. but since the 912s were basically axle-swaps of JNR's narrow-gauge Class DD13 road-switchers (of which 4 from JNR proper are preserved and many copies are still in service with the private sector), I don't consider this to be a devastating loss.
912-64 was the last of these to be withdrawn in 2011. A section of its bonnet and nose can be seen at Kyoto Railway Museum.

The more significant loss in terms of Shinkansen diesel history was the scrapping of No. 911-2, which for a time was kept at Hamamatsu Depot after its withdrawal from service in 1995. Class 911, of which 3 were built, were 2200-hp Bo-Bo-Bo diesel hydraulics, geared for 120 mph running and capable of starting a full 16-car class 0 train on a 2% grade when necessary. They also happen to be one of the first diesel locomotives in the world equipped with automatic train stop from new.


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 Post subject: Re: Who will save the acela?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:07 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:28 am
Posts: 323
Location: Ipswich, UK
Parts of one of the prototype (electric) Advanced Passenger Trains is preserved here in the UK - 6 cars worth at Crewe Heritage Centre, plus another spare power car that has returned to Crewe after being displayed elsewhere at a museum that closed down.
As regards the HST diesel sets, which have now started to be withdrawn after 40 years of service a preservation group was established a few years back and they have started to accumulate some passenger cars and have returned one of the prototype power cars (owned by the National Railway Museum) to service to haul them.....
https://www.125group.org.uk/

As regards an Acela, are they not going to be transferred to other uses (like the NEC Regional services) or are they just going to be "dumped" straight away when the new ones arrive?

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 Post subject: Re: Who will save the acela?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:32 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 597
RCD wrote:
who will preserve an acela train set?

The Biden Presidential Library?


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 Post subject: Re: Who will save the acela?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 10:43 am 

Joined: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:56 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Ontario, Canada.
Not such a bad idea, saving examples of those train sets.
There was a modest effort many years back to save elements of the CN/VIA Turbo train equipment. Although relatively short lived, Turbo perhaps added to the evolution of high speed rail. I guess the technology is never lost so long as the plans and blueprints survive.
One can say the same about the VIA LRC. Much of the LRC coach equipment is still running on VIA and perhaps at least one of the locomotives was saved?
Where do you start and stop though?
Future generations might be interested in a CP/VIA Canadian equipment set. The CN Tempo was interesting and helped boost passenger sales in its time. The CN Rapido sets were assembled from existing equipment but brought a novel approach. The Reading Crusader/CN Champlain set also gave good service and pleasant memories.
Storage, presentation, and long term preservation are obvious issues.


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 Post subject: Re: Who will save the acela?
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:01 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:47 pm
Posts: 171
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Crusader obs car No 1 is at the RR Museum of PA. Obs #5 was in a Dinner Train near Seattle and as best I know has since gone to Iowa Pacific.

As to the RDG numbers, the two obs cars were #1 and 5; the two coaches were #2 and 4 and the diner was #3. Needless to say, at one point the train was coupled 1-4-3-2-5.

Phil Mulligan


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