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 Post subject: O/T--Notre Dame Fire, Restoration, and Old Skills Relearned
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:18 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3611
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
On the importance of preserving skills.

https://www.latimes.com/world/europe/la ... _6CUtjJQj0


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 Post subject: Re: O/T--Notre Dame Fire, Restoration, and Old Skills Relear
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:59 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2004 3:04 pm
Posts: 118
Location: San Jose, CA
Modern construction methods are the result of technological AND safety advancements.

Can you imagine a railroad museum repeatedly offering a live link-and-pin demonstration simply to retain those skills and fearlessness of missing-fingered brakemen?

I agree time honored skills are being lost, but is this castle effort going a bit to far?


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 Post subject: Re: O/T--Notre Dame Fire, Restoration, and Old Skills Relear
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:53 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:15 am
Posts: 548
Ken,

I would suggest watching the Timeline series `Secrets of the Castle' which is about the work going on at the Guedelon project site. Here is a link to the first episode: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydoRAbpWfCU

They are using the old technology and methods but are following the majority of modern French safety laws (probably should have a few more safety glasses, hard hats, steel toe boots and gloves, but...)

I hope they do the Notre Dame justice and not do a slap bang, modernistic, polished turd, reinterpretation of it's majesty. How many decades did it take to build the spire, if it is done in 1/5 the time than probably it was done too fast.

Rich C.


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 Post subject: Re: O/T--Notre Dame Fire, Restoration, and Old Skills Relear
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:09 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5703
Location: southeastern USA
Actually, fan of time machines that I am, I think there's room for industrial safe to be unsafe zones in which consenting adult craftsmen who accept the level of risk can demonstrate the way things were done back when we expected people to exercise common sense.

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Santayana: "He who does not remember the past is condemned to repeat it."
Corollary: "He who does is doomed to watch those who don't repeat it anyway."


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 Post subject: Re: O/T--Notre Dame Fire, Restoration, and Old Skills Relear
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:37 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:10 pm
Posts: 153
We also have that in the US, but more in line with this forum. https://www.rvp1875.com/
Robby makes it all by hand from rough sawn lumber. Fyi do you need a odd molding to restore a rare old coach? Maybe, just maybe he could make it for you by hand. Anyway if you get a chance to visit it's worth it.
Mike

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M. Nix


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 Post subject: Re: O/T--Notre Dame Fire, Restoration, and Old Skills Relear
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:43 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2485
Location: Northern Illinois
Ken Middlebrook wrote:
Modern construction methods are the result of technological AND safety advancements.

Can you imagine a railroad museum repeatedly offering a live link-and-pin demonstration simply to retain those skills and fearlessness of missing-fingered brakemen?


Actually I can. There are safe ways to deal with link and pin couplers... See if the search function will bring up the Bishop's coupling knife discussion. I would dare say that the carnage was due to multiple factors that a demonstration could explain, but not duplicate:

It was dark;
It was raining;
The only illumination was a kerosene lamp (did I say it was dark?)
The only way to signal for movement was that same lamp;
The men were tired, on duty for longer than sixteen hours;
The men were hung over;
The men were drunk;
The whole crew was in a hurry, if not for an early quit, then to not be 'run around' on the call board.

Put two or three of these together and you have an accident waiting to happen.

Even scarier than link and pin is the European method of popping up between the buffers to drop the link, and they still seem to do this, in preservation at least, the world over.

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Dennis Storzek


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 Post subject: Re: O/T--Notre Dame Fire, Restoration, and Old Skills Relear
PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:00 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 616
This seems real enough, recent, and ab-so-lute-ly INSANE:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_92JMNatv_8


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 Post subject: Re: O/T--Notre Dame Fire, Restoration, and Old Skills Relear
PostPosted: Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:18 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:45 pm
Posts: 169
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
There are places to learn historic crafts, and experience the past while doing it!

http://historiceastfield.org/index.php? ... kshops2019

ABOUT THE WORKSHOPS AT EASTFIELD VILLAGE

For four decades, the Annual Series of Early American Trades and Historic Preservation Workshops has offered workshops and symposia in the traditional trades and domestic arts. The goal is to maintain the highest educational standards, with instructors who are leaders in their fields. The in-depth, hands-on workshops appeal to a wide range of students, including tradesmen, craftsmen, and museum personnel seeking to advance their knowledge and skills, as well as homeowners looking to deal with issues concerning historic home maintenance and restoration.

Preservation Laboratory - Eastfield Village is not a museum open to the public. Its creator, Donald Carpentier, assembled the more than twenty buildings and the thousands of architectural elements, tools and artifacts specifically to serve as a study collection. The Village itself is an educational tool. Combine this unique laboratory with gifted instructors who are eager to share their expertise and the result is a level of detail and depth to the courses that only Eastfield can offer.

Unique Experience - The lure of Eastfield is more than its exceptional curriculum. Students who take classes at the Village are encouraged to live there during their courses. Meals may be cooked in the late 18th century kitchens. Accommodations are rope beds with straw and feather ticks. Most evenings there are gatherings in the Briggs Tavern with lively conversations. This immersion experience offers an unforgettable opportunity to be with others - students and teachers - of similar interests, and to gain an appreciation for the work and daily life of pre-industrial America.

Lodging at Eastfield - Eastfield's taverns are available FREE OF CHARGE for those wishing to stay as our guests in early 19th century accommodations. The only requirement is that each person supply his/her own bedding plus 10 ten-inch white candles.

Eastfield Origins - Donald Carpentier moved his first building, a blacksmith's shop, into his father's "east field" in 1971. Over the years, he amassed a collection of buildings and artifacts and established the internationally known Workshops. The stated time period is 1787 – 1840 and all the buildings date from those years. They include a towering Greek Revival church, a thirteen room 18th century tavern and many smaller buildings devoted to the individual trades, including carpentry, tinsmithing, printing and shoemaking.

Historic Eastfield Foundation - Carpentier passed away from ALS in August of 2014, but his life work - Eastfield Village and the Workshops - continues under the aegis of the Historic Eastfield Foundation. Established by Don in 1990, the not-for-profit Foundation has as its mission "to continue the work of training men and women in a range of early American trades and historic preservation skills, and encouraging crafts persons and preservationists in their efforts to save the technology of the past.

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John Isaksen


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 Post subject: Re: O/T--Notre Dame Fire, Restoration, and Old Skills Relear
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:18 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:57 pm
Posts: 178
Location: Eastampton, NJ
Eastfield Village looks interesting, but where is it? I looked all over their website, and I could not see anything about the state or town where it's located. Perhaps I missed it. Fortunately Google Maps knows that it's in Nassau, NY.

This is a not uncommon mistake. You know where your museum is located, and so you forget to mention it on the website.

-Mark


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 Post subject: Re: O/T--Notre Dame Fire, Restoration, and Old Skills Relear
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 9314
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
I've witnessed a demonstration sawmill at an annual steam thresher/tractor show in Maryland.

To the untrained eye, it looks like a bunch of guys just demonstrating a big, old sawblade like the one that was supposed to saw a damsel in two, if you ever watched old thriller serial films or satires based on them.

But if you look closely, it's actually an extraordinarily well-choreographed practical demonstration.

The wood that comes in is not all random logs. They're often oak, maple, cedar, poplar and other woods, carefully cut when they were felled or salvaged to save the wood. Each log comes in with paper tacked to it, which the sawmill crew puts on a clipboard and studies intently during the process. They take initial cuts, examine the wood for quality or flaws, then proceed to cut boards for furniture-making, wood-crafting, etc. The cutting may change partway through the process as better grain is found or unexpected flaws surface. Sometimes the client is standing there himself watching to call the cuts. The "customers" wait all year for that "authentic old-time" sawmill cutting, getting anything from furniture stock to fenceposts that last "forever."

I told them that they needed a "color commentator" narrating the process for the uninitiated, who otherwise might just watch pieces being cut for 30 seconds and walk away. I think they may have done that by now.

The last year I was there, they also had an old-time shingle-making automatic sawing device, cranking out cedar shakes by the boatload. Then someone got smart, and offered up the "factory second" shingles to passers-by for $1 each as "cedar planks for your fish grilling"....... what WalMart sells for $2 each in quantity and Williams-Sonoma sells for $6 each in a pack of four...... <:-D


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 Post subject: Re: O/T--Notre Dame Fire, Restoration, and Old Skills Relear
PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:07 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 963
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Our museum routinely sends two of our coaches out to auto shows in the Tucson area. We are fortunate that since one of the coaches was from a local operator, it gets almost instant recognition from the older attendees. We use them to get additional public exposure that our museum would otherwise miss out on.

Our shop does thing the old fashioned way and we actively pass those skills on to the students and interns that we receive through the Pima County OneStop and the Pima County Joint Technical Education Division. Today's student is tomorrow's skilled technician and the future vehicle restorer.

Those of us in preservation must, at some point, face the fact that our time here is limited. We must prepare the preservationists of the future to carry on the burden long after we have gone. If we do not actively work to pass our skills on to the next generation, those skills will be lost.

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"When a man runs on railroads over half of his lifetime he is fit for nothing else-and at times he don't know that."- Conductor Nimrod Bell, 1896


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 Post subject: Re: O/T--Notre Dame Fire, Restoration, and Old Skills Relear
PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 2:32 am 

Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2016 10:40 pm
Posts: 229
Location: San Francisco, CA
I am a die-hard preservationist. I am retired after 40 years in the museum business.

My local narrow gauge railroad Museum is the Railraod Museum at Ardenwood. They have been running for at least 20 years with link and pin couplers. Remember it is day time and with trained railroad volunteers.

They are restoring the NWP #6101 baggage caboose which will also have link and pin couplers. Way to go guys!

Ted Miles narrow gauge fan.

PS I have watched the film and it is amazing! building a whole castle as if it was 1400!

TM


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