Well done UP...That was impressive.
Lots of great video's.

Was the yellow tender, with the American flag, once part of the UP Turbine fleet..?

Indeed!

The yellow tenders started life as 4-8-4 tenders. Later they served as fuel tenders for the impressive 8500HP turbine locomotives. http://utahrails.net/pass/water-cars.php The link has the complete history of both of the UP water tenders.

Robert

BigBoy 4023
Great link. That will be very, very useful.
Thanks.

BigBoy 4023

Robert,
Thanks for the UP tender link. Interesting reading.

May 1990, multiple detail shots of the Turbine Tenders at Ogden.
After all these years, wondered if one of them had ended-up coupled to the Big Boy.
Doesn't look like it. Just a few numbers away...so close.

BTW...They were a lot more complex than any tender I've ever seen.

Are these two units still around..?

Dennis.

Dennis, The two UP water tenders are former turbine fuel tenders, Nee 4-8-4 tenders. Both of these tenders were rebuilt by Wasatch Railroad Contractors for the Union Pacific. Steve Lee, former manger of UP steam operations wanted to maximize the water carrying capacity. In order to do so required the removal of the turbine fuel components and electric heating elements. They also removed the walkways from the top. So they are turbine fuel tenders, but not in turbine tender stock form.

In a nut shell I think this Aster steam page will help clear up the confusion around the water tenders of the UPRR heritage operations. http://www.asterhobbyusa.com/water-tank-car.html The pictures show well the original configuration, turbine configuration, rebuilt water tender configuration.

The two cars in the pictures are stored un-restored in the Cheyenne yard. They are former CSA "lite weight" challenger tenders. The contact I have at UP informed me they are going to salvage the trucks and cut up these two tenders in the near future. Doesn't make sense to cut up two potential water tenders? That's just what I have been told by sources who would have considerable knowledge working for the UPRR.

These tenders were available recently from ScaleTrains.

They also can be had in kit form from James Train Parts. They are among the first full HO car kit 3D Printed.https://jamestrainparts.com/shop/steam-tenders/

Another option would be to scratch build them in HO like Super UP Fan did. https://sites.google.com/site/superupfan/home/jim-adams-and-joe-jordan

They have been available in Brass before in HO. Kato offers the UP water tenders in N scale as well as some of the excursion cars.

Robert

Robert,
Thanks for feedback.

The Docents at the Ogden Museum, show just how big that puppy is..
And
Top walkways you mentioned. Looks like two UP markings emerging under the fading paint.

Dennis.

They are big ain't they. Gives a good idea of just how much fuel the old Big blow turbines really used. They could consume 600 gallons or more an hour at full load of the heavy black bunker C fuel oil.

It's a shame the UP is considering cutting up these two tenders. If they need trucks they could track down the 3 axle trucks under old DODX flatcars or the super tanker cars being rapidly phased out. They already have roller bearings to boot!

I hope UP decides to put these two old CSA challenger tenders into service as I would like to see them behind challenger 3985 as auxiliary water tenders.

Robert

I used to visit the steam shop on a pretty regular basis when I worked for Union Pacific and I have never heard of those tenders slated to get cut up for scrap. I have never witnessed any large equipment cut up for scrap in the decades I have been going up there. I know Ed did a large purge in the old roundhouse a few years ago, including junking the shrouding on the #838. Two CNW F units were donated to another museum and the DRGW 5763 booster unit was sent to California to be rebuilt for snowplow service. The #838's tender has been sitting on the ground with no wheels for as long as I can remember.

There is tons of other ancient rail cars all over that yard in poor condition. They don't have a space problem and Union Pacific obviously keeps all that stuff around because of it's history. Tenders of that type are a rarity and I don't believe they will ever get scrapped. If they needed the trucks they would simply remove them and then replace them with the worn out trucks. No need to scrap anything.

I remember talking to one of the members of the steam crew years ago and he said there is these very long rivets (something like 3 feet long) going through the bottom of the tender and into the frame. He said removing and replacing them would be almost impossible since they would have to be drilled out. It will be likely that the #844's tender and the water cars will have to be replaced at some point.

There is definitive plans in the works for turning the old brick roundhouse into a permanent museum. It will be one of Cheyennes star attractions to go along with the depot. All that historic equipment including the tenders will be part of the museum.

Tom F. What you say sounds more logical to me. The word I have gotten was from the time of transition from Steve to Ed Dickens. I believe there was a lot happening at the time and a lot of changes being made. All of which probably caused a bit of uncertainty and confusion as to what was going to get "purged" and kept.

On a side note, Whom was responsible for purging the SW10 shop switcher? I know Steve had ordered new fuel injectors for it. They had not been installed at the time of the loco being purged.

Robert

UP #96 was donated to the Oregon Rail Heritage Center in Portland, Oregon around 2016. I don't know who's decision it was to donate it. I only saw it operational a few times with the last time around October, 2010 when it was moving some cars after the last run of the Challenger.

BigBoy 4023.

Robert,
An interesting conversation.
Glad you like the old b&w photo's.
Here's a couple more for the model word.

Figuring out the inter-connection between the tenders....requires a bit of study.
I'm assuming the square terminal box, is the electrical connection, for the fuel heaters.?
Also assuming the power would come from the main generator on the engine.
Any idea what voltage...

General Motors "Engine Water Temperature" gauge. Reads the temp of the Bunker-C..?

Don't take my word as the gospel. I'm going on memory of what I read a very long time ago.

The heaters for the heavy fuel actually got their power from the Cooper Bessemer diesel engine on the A units of the 8500hp turbines. There was a three phase alternator connected to the diesel engine and mounted off to the side of the diesel to supply 480 volt 3 phase power to the heating elements. The diesel also drove a generator that supplied power for the air compressors, battery charging, lights, and accessories. The 4 traction generators and their exciter units were driven from the turbine and supplied the 4 trucks with 3 traction motors each. NO, the tender trucks didn't have traction motors. That's been a rumor for many years.

There is a manual for the 8500hp turbines here. http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=41427&start=45 Alot of good information and several arguments as well. My ideas to restore a turbine locomotive met with the usual BS about why it shouldn't, couldn't, won't happen. The problems of parts availability is a very serious issue, But not impossible to overcome. The Cooper Bessemer engine could give way to a GE 7FDL V8 since Cooper Bessemer parts are scarce. The electrical could be sorted out. The trucks would need heavy repair to replace the cut off traction motor brackets. I don't know of any available ARR "C" trucks to replace the messed up trucks under the UP turbines 18 and 26. Only 18 still has it's frame 5 turbine power plant and gear reduction drive. The turbine is said to be seized up.

Robert

BigBoy 4023.
Robert.

Yes, that connector has three separate rows of pins.
So, 480/3phase...That's serious power...

Interesting about the diesel gen-set running all the auxiliary stuff, when the turbines are shut down.

When you consider how big the heating elements are, it's not surprising that they would require serious power. We're talking many KW worth the heating elements.

The diesel engine ran all the auxiliary stuff while the turbine was running. The turbine only provides the traction power and nothing else. The diesel engine does all the rest of the work.

All the videos I have seen show the turbines huge cloud of exhaust and the diesel engine's exhaust while the locomotive is pulling a train.

The turbines had two air compressors. One in the turbine B unit supplied atomizing air for the heavy fuel into the turbine engine. The other compressor ran the brakes. Both took their power from the diesel engine generator while the turbine was running.

They were complex machines and did the work of 3 diesel locomotives. However their fuel consumption, noise, and unique power plant did them in.

Robert

Curious side note:

I know for a fact that one or two ex-UP yellow tenders, 99% certainty that they were from GTEs because they still sported UP yellow and lettering, ended up in a siding adjacent to the Conrail yard in Shiremanstown, Pa. just west of Harrisburg. They were visible from U.S. 11 near the US 11/15/Pa. 581 interchange, at a time when most traffic to/from I-83 bypassed Lemoyne, etc. by that dogleg. My impression was that they were picked up by some rail contractor as a potential fuel tank, or maybe he had delusions of it following PRR 1361 or something.

I never did find out what happened to hem, or how they got there. Any of our intrepid Pennsylvanians have any info?