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 Post subject: On line resources regarding 19th century passenger coaches?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 11:47 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2019 3:15 am
Posts: 3
I am inclined to rule out our baggage car as being earlier than 1900, owing to its
65 foot length.

Whilst we try to locate builder's information on the base plate of the door frame, if it remains extant, I am trying to read up on 19th century passenger and baggage coaches
and am getting only rather vague articles discussing broad generalities instead of specifics by which our vehicle can be compared.

Can any of you gentle readers furnish me with some useful links? Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: On line resources regarding 19th century passenger coach
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 2:18 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 2043
Location: Southern California
While the internet is serving a vast library of information, you will find that you will often need to refer to printed material about railroad car design and histories.

One overall book about the development of passenger train equipment is The American Railroad Passenger Car by John H. White, Jr. This was first published as a 700 page hardcover book by John Hopkins University Press. The University Press later released the book as two softcover volumes. Mr. White was once Curator of Land Transportation for the Smithsonian. Additionally, Mr. White wrote a book -- just as ponderous -- about the development of freight train cars.

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 Post subject: Re: On line resources regarding 19th century passenger coach
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 6:08 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:36 am
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Location: Anchorage, Alaska
I second the suggestion on White's book. It tells the story of how passenger cars evolved so may help with an approximate date.

Also check archive.org. I believe it has copies of the early Carbuilder's Dictionaries. You might even find an ad for your Chisholm & Moore door roller. They came out every few years so may help date the style of car.

In a quick Google search I found that Chisholm & Moore was a manufacturer of chain falls more than RR parts. I saw references from about 1890 to 1920. In the 1890s there were both Chisholms and Moores in the firm's management.


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 Post subject: Re: On line resources regarding 19th century passenger coach
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 8:45 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Somewhere east of Prescott, AZ along the old Santa Fe "Prescott & Eastern"
Five full editions here: 1879, 1888, 1903, 1909, and 1919:

https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000552394


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 Post subject: Re: On line resources regarding 19th century passenger coach
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 10:08 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:12 am
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Location: cheyenne
You need to remove paint above the doors, the car number will give you all you need, or possibly lot numbers stamped on the wood on the windows etc if its a Pullman product. length is typical for the period 1880 onwards.
PM me for more info

Mike Pannell


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 Post subject: Re: On line resources regarding 19th century passenger coach
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 11:56 am 

Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:49 am
Posts: 64
Back around 2000 the organization TRAINS published a 2 volume spiral bound set on construction and the repair of passenger cars and trucks starting around 1880 up to the heavy weights.

Freewheelin' Freddie


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 Post subject: Re: On line resources regarding 19th century passenger coach
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 1:18 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Northern Illinois
Chops wrote:
I am inclined to rule out our baggage car as being earlier than 1900, owing to its
65 foot length.
.


You really need to do much more research before making that statement. Just over 60' was a common length for mail cars well into the twenties (]at the end of wood car construction) because the Post Office only leased 'postal apartments' Of fixed length; 15, 30, and 60 feet. The first two were always combined with some other function, either baggage space or coach seating, but the last rarely was. So most full mail cars were close to sixty feet long. Last baggage mail cars built with full wood undeframes th that I am aware of were built in 1909. There is nothing that says this car is much earlier.

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 Post subject: Re: On line resources regarding 19th century passenger coach
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:11 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:16 am
Posts: 767
Woody currently has my copy of Mr. White's book. Further when they asked me about it I referred them to the book and was told that a certain someone was unhappy with me not helping them. Please look at the book.

Robby Peartree


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 Post subject: Re: On line resources regarding 19th century passenger coach
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:15 pm
Posts: 1470
Location: Henderson Nevada
As Mike suggested, look on top of the doors and window sash. It was common to stamp a car number and or lot number as well as a number to say which location the door or window belonged on a car when doors and windows were removed for painting or repairs.

60' long wood cars were common to the end of wooden car construction... Even the earliest "Common Standard" aka Harriman steel cars were only 60'.

From your original post in the previous thread...

'The undercarriage is made entirely of wood. There is no steel or cast iron its under frame whatsoever" There is no such thing as an "entirely" wood railroad car... they used iron/steel truss and tension rods and castings for center plates... or this could have been a wood body on a steel under frame, in either case the metal parts have been removed and scrapped...

"Cast iron bolts that are square, not hexagonal, indicate a possible dating to prior to 1880." Square head bolts were used though the entire wooden car era... into the 1920s... and are still used in wood power poles... and are still available...

The sources for wooden car information is as others have suggested, John White, the American Railroad Passenger Car, The occasional Car Builder's Dictionaries, articles in National Car Builder and the Railroad Gazette, including Voss, Wooden Railroad Car Construction... originally published in the National Car Builder, then as a book (c.1896) and has been reprinted twice, once... Much of this can be found on line...

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Director, Nevada State Railroad Museum, Boulder City, Nevada, Retired
http://www.nevadasouthern.com/
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