It is currently Fri Sep 20, 2019 5:51 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: GTW preserved wood caboose?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:06 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5621
I know that a number of Grand Trunk Western wood cabooses have been preserved. I ran across this photo taken of a GTW fan trip back in 1952:

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/630203/

I can't make out on my small computer screen, the number of the caboose shown in this photo. Can anyone figure out what it is? Trying to determine if this caboose might have been one that was saved. Thanks.

And Happy New Year everyone!


Les


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GTW preserved wood caboose?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 7:21 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 402
Location: Pure Michigan
I have a giant computer monitor and I could not make out the numbers, but GTW 77058 at the Michigan Transit Museum matches the paint scheme. But perhaps more had the same style logos and markings?

Photo from July 2018:
Image


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GTW preserved wood caboose?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:29 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5621
NS 3322 -

Thanks for posting the photo. My guess is that more than one GTW wood cupola caboose had that particular paint scheme and particular lettering, but perhaps not. So maybe the 77058 IS the caboose on that trip! Unless someone else can positively identify the buggy, I would say that your guess is good. The 77058 looks pretty bad these days; as does most of the other equipment in that shot. Are things really that bad at MTM?

A couple of other things I noticed on looking at the photo again. First, the light green Studebaker parked nearest the camera. A 1947 perhaps or.......? And then there's the paint scheme on EMD NW2 # 7974. Orange "speed stripes"? Surprised I miss that the first time I looked at the photo. Tried to find a better shot on the internet of that particular scheme and had absolutely no luck. Was this a GTW "standard" back then? My guess is that, unlike wood cabooses, none of the Grand Trunk Western NW2's are still around.

Les


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GTW preserved wood caboose?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:17 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 402
Location: Pure Michigan
Les Beckman wrote:
NS 3322 -

Thanks for posting the photo. My guess is that more than one GTW wood cupola caboose had that particular paint scheme and particular lettering, but perhaps not. So maybe the 77058 IS the caboose on that trip! Unless someone else can positively identify the buggy, I would say that your guess is good.


Same, I am just guessing. I have posted the photo in question on the GTW Historical Society Facebook page.

Les Beckman wrote:
The 77058 looks pretty bad these days; as does most of the other equipment in that shot. Are things really that bad at MTM?


After they were told to vacate the ANG base about 10 years ago, the transition was very hard for them. They went down from 5 miles of track to just barely 1.5 miles. I think the new administration and management is working to improve things. I visited the MTM last July, and although the line is not the most scenic i have ridden, I was very impressed on how they ran things. However, they still have a lot of work to do...
Here is an album of my visit to the MTM: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiv ... ?id=128423


Les Beckman wrote:
My guess is that, unlike wood cabooses, none of the Grand Trunk Western NW2's are still around.


There is at least one survivor! BSVY 1003 was formerly GTW 7914. "In the early 1970’s the Grand Trunk Western retired the locomotive, and it went to Precision National Corporation in Mount Vernon, Illinois, a company which sold and rebuilt used equipment. In 1973, the unit was sold to the Chicago and North Western Railway. In March of 1986, the Chicago and North Western sold the 1003 to the Boone & Scenic Valley Railroad."

Image


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GTW preserved wood caboose?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 3:41 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5621
NS 3322 -

Thanks for the info on the surviving ex-GTW NW2. Very interesting!

I went through the photos of your July 2018 visit to the Michigan Transit Museum. Your shot of their depot there in Mt. Clemens shows a very interesting, and historic, structure. From their website, it appears that the train leaves from a location other than the depot, but I'm not sure how far apart the two locations are. The equipment used for the train is obviously in better condition than GTW caboose 77058 to say the least! Baldwin-Lima-Hamilton (ex-U.S. Air Force) diesel #4040, CTA #4450, CR caboose 21160 and Chicago, South Shore & South Bend #11. An interesting combination of equipment! Conrail caboose 21160 is ex-Erie Lackawanna #C361, one of the bay window cars from the only order for cabooses that the EL ever made. Thanks for the reference to those photos. I'll have to get up to MTM on one of my visits to Michigan.


Les


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GTW preserved wood caboose?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:27 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 402
Location: Pure Michigan
Les Beckman wrote:
...it appears that the train leaves from a location other than the depot, but I'm not sure how far apart the two locations are.


The depot is located next to the CN Mount Clemens Sub mainline, but the train operates on part of the old GTW spur that ran to the AFB. The spur has been disconnected from the CN mainline for sometime now. The depot and Joy Park boarding platform are about 2 miles from each other (see attached map). (The equipment storage area is off of North Ave at the west end of the line).

Les Beckman wrote:
The equipment used for the train is obviously in better condition than GTW caboose 77058 to say the least! Baldwin-Lima-Hamilton (ex-U.S. Air Force) diesel #4040, CTA #4450, CR caboose 21160 and Chicago, South Shore & South Bend #11. An interesting combination of equipment!


Yes it is a rather unusual consist!

Les Beckman wrote:
Thanks for the reference to those photos. I'll have to get up to MTM on one of my visits to Michigan.


They only run the train on Sunday, but the depot is open on both Saturday and Sunday.


Attachments:
1.JPG
1.JPG [ 268.53 KiB | Viewed 1983 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GTW preserved wood caboose?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:02 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2004 8:42 am
Posts: 397
Location: Haslett, Michigan USA
Mount Clemens was my home town, so I can't resist commenting. There is a lot of history there.

The depot is built to a British design, like all those between Detroit and Port Huron. The track was originally Canadian broad gauge--6 feet?, and worked by primitive 0-8-0s. This is said to be where Thomas Edison learned telegraphy and developed his taste for electricity. After 1870 the town had several huge mineral-bath resort hotels, some of which worked until the 1960s, their wells giving the town a sulfurous stench. None survive. A streetcar line terminated at the GTW depot.

Gratiot Avenue carried the Rapid Railway interurban line to Algonac and Port Huron until 1929. The grocery store parking lot formerly used for the MTM train was the site of the Canfield car house.

The MTM train is the second operation of traction trailers behind a switcher on the spur to Selfridge Field. During WWII, Gratiot Ave. buses were met by a Plymouth gas-mechanical switcher hauling a DSR trailer for airmen, with USAAC markings.

But to return to the original post, there are a lot of GTW wood (and steel) cabooses in existence. Probably the best restorations are the two by the late Denis Hoffman at Grand Haven, and a recent job at the Howell history museum, at the Ann Arbor depot. There was a caboose in the cement company just south of the Mt. Clemens depot in the 1960s, but I don't remember if it was wood or steel, nor do I know what happened to it. At that time there was still a fabulously-quaint crossing tower across Cass Avenue from the depot.

The nonoperating MTM equipment is on a parcel of land west of Gratiot; I don't know where their DSR PCC car is, the only DSR car still in Michigan.

Aarne Frobom

Clintondale High School class of 1970


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GTW preserved wood caboose?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:15 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 2:14 pm
Posts: 507
Location: Essex, Connecticut, USA
Greetings:
Illinois Railway Museum has Grand Trunk Western caboose #77952 in it's vast collection.
It was part of the late Bob Johnson's collection which was bequeathed to IRM.
As with the rest of Bob's collection it is stored inside (which building I have no idea). During his life, Bob donated funds to insure that all of his collection received inside storage.
He also owned 4-8-4 #6323, RS-1 #1952, Parlor Car "Melanie", an RPO and a spare tender for 6323.
J.David


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GTW preserved wood caboose?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:08 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5621
J. David -

Thanks for the info on the late Bob Johnson's collection at IRM. I found photos of GTW wood cupola caboose #77952, 4-8-4 #6323, the GTW RPO (#9695) and the last ALCO RS-1 built (GTW #1951), all stored inside one of the barns as you mentioned. I also found a reference to the spare tender (6323B) but no photos, which is quite understandable. What I couldn't find, was a listing for the Parlor Car "Melanie". Tried a couple of other alternate possibilities besides GTW, but nothing. Do you perhaps know if it be might be listed under something else? Thanks much.

Les


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GTW preserved wood caboose?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:37 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 402
Location: Pure Michigan
Les Beckman wrote:
Thanks for the info on the late Bob Johnson's collection at IRM. I found photos of GTW wood cupola caboose #77952, 4-8-4 #6323, the GTW RPO (#9695) and the last ALCO RS-1 built (GTW #1951), all stored inside one of the barns as you mentioned. I also found a reference to the spare tender (6323B) but no photos, which is quite understandable. What I couldn't find, was a listing for the Parlor Car "Melanie". Tried a couple of other alternate possibilities besides GTW, but nothing. Do you perhaps know if it be might be listed under something else? Thanks much.


The coach is mentioned in the IRM blog on Sunday, March 20. 2016
"On Sunday, March 20th, the first car was moved into Barn 14 after receiving occupancy on Friday. The car was Grand Trunk Western 5316, a coach that was relocated from Barn 9. "

Listing for GTW #5316: http://www5.irm.org/cgi-bin/rsearch.cgi ... stern=5316

Image

2006 interior photo.
Image


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GTW preserved wood caboose?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:24 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5621
NS 3322 -

I saw the photo of the GTW coach in the barn when I looked, but it wasn't a Parlor Car. I should have checked out the IRM website which would have given me the info that it was the former Parlor Car "Melanie". Bad year for me thus far with facts. Not a good omen!


Les


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GTW preserved wood caboose?
PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:17 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 1:27 pm
Posts: 450
Location: Milford,Mass
Hi Les
First Happy New year, the number on the caboose looks like either
27331 or 37331, looking through a magnifying glass. Pat


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GTW preserved wood caboose?
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:56 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
Posts: 548
Location: New Franklin, OH
Les Beckman wrote:
I know that a number of Grand Trunk Western wood cabooses have been preserved. I ran across this photo taken of a GTW fan trip back in 1952:

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/630203/

I can't make out on my small computer screen, the number of the caboose shown in this photo. Can anyone figure out what it is? Trying to determine if this caboose might have been one that was saved. Thanks.

And Happy New Year everyone!


Les

Les,

There's a "Contact Photographer" link on that page. You might try that since internet images usually aren't high resolution and he may be able to read the number off the original image.

_________________
Eric Schlentner
Orrville Railroad Heritage Society
Car Knocker, Gandy Dancer & Hog Jockey
http://www.orrvillerailroad.com


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GTW preserved wood caboose?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:15 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5621
NS 3322 wrote:
Les Beckman wrote:
...it appears that the train leaves from a location other than the depot, but I'm not sure how far apart the two locations are.


The depot is located next to the CN Mount Clemens Sub mainline, but the train operates on part of the old GTW spur that ran to the AFB. The spur has been disconnected from the CN mainline for sometime now. The depot and Joy Park boarding platform are about 2 miles from each other (see attached map). (The equipment storage area is off of North Ave at the west end of the line).





NS 3322 -

I noticed from the map you referenced, that the boarding location at Joy Park is located approximately midway along the old GTW spur. I'm not sure how much mileage is on the spur and also, how they operate their trains (both ways, one way, or....?). I looked on their website and also their Facebook page, but didn't see any information. Perhaps someone might have that info.

Les


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GTW preserved wood caboose?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:27 pm 

Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:26 pm
Posts: 402
Location: Pure Michigan
Les Beckman wrote:
NS 3322 -

I noticed from the map you referenced, that the boarding location at Joy Park is located approximately midway along the old GTW spur. I'm not sure how much mileage is on the spur and also, how they operate their trains (both ways, one way, or....?). I looked on their website and also their Facebook page, but didn't see any information. Perhaps someone might have that info.

Les


The trains first go east out of Joy Park and under the Edsel Ford Freeway (I-94) before stopping just behind Charmed Details Boutique (not getting too close to the Selfridge ANGB railroad gate). The train then heads west passing through Joy Park (not stopping), crosses Gratiot Avenue, and continues to North Avenue. After this, the train then heads back east and returns to Joy Park.

The total operational mileage for the spur is about 1.5 miles. Making the total length of the ride about 3 miles in length. It is not the most scenic train ride in Michigan, but it is definitely something to at least once. I hope this helps!

If you do visit be sure to check out the newly donated DT&I #96 caboose on display by the Mt. Clemens depot. This DT&I caboose was previously privately owned in New Boston, Michigan.


Attachments:
mtm2.JPG
mtm2.JPG [ 263.43 KiB | Viewed 377 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Crescent-Zephyr, Google [Bot] and 42 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: