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 Post subject: Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:34 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
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Location: Southern California
SD70dude wrote:
The cab appears very similar to the design used on the Australian locomotives NRE has recently built. Complete with the white and red marker lights that are still in use down under.

https://www.railpage.com.au/photos/52788
There was a report elsewhere on the web that the first two locomotives to be delivered are re-worked demos built for the eventual Australian order.

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 Post subject: Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:51 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1030
Looks like a cross between a BQ23-7 and a 1990s EMD, two locomotives loathed by crews. Can't believe a preserved system would put that thing on their trains.


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 Post subject: Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:38 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2010 1:57 am
Posts: 210
PMC wrote:
Can't believe a preserved system would put that thing on their trains.


Let's remember that WP&Y is NOT a museum, and has no historical design obligations to meet.


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 Post subject: Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
PostPosted: Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:33 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
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Zak Lybrand wrote:
PMC wrote:
Can't believe a preserved system would put that thing on their trains.


Let's remember that WP&Y is NOT a museum, and has no historical design obligations to meet.

In the back of my mind I am thinking about the D&S, who were apparently considering the same model, but I guess your statement applies to them as well. Yech.


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 Post subject: Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 4:08 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 1030
The first units should be delivered next month, just in time to not have much work (looks like 3002 managed to pick up a ding already, on the engineer's side right behind the pilot): https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/north/wh ... 8uBXqxYGM4


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 Post subject: Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 8:16 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 598
Zak Lybrand wrote:
PMC wrote:
Can't believe a preserved system would put that thing on their trains.


Let's remember that WP&Y is NOT a museum, and has no historical design obligations to meet.


They are in the tourist business though and should consider the look of their motive power. Hard to say what these will really look like when all is said and done. They may be ok. But the design for an operation like White Pass should look at least slightly vintage imho. Note that vintage is not historical... just puts off the vintage vibe.


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 Post subject: Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2020 9:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:37 pm
Posts: 151
People could care less what the locomotive looks like. It could be a John Deere tractor for all they care. People ride these trains for the adventure and scenery. The tiny percent of history buffs will be pleased to see the ocassional older diesel but especially the STEAM locomotive. Everyone knows what a steam engine is.


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 Post subject: Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 12:32 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
Posts: 598
R.L.Kennedy wrote:
People could care less what the locomotive looks like. It could be a John Deere tractor for all they care. People ride these trains for the adventure and scenery. The tiny percent of history buffs will be pleased to see the ocassional older diesel but especially the STEAM locomotive. Everyone knows what a steam engine is.


”It’s very easy to think “Oh people aren’t going to get that.” This sentiment is often used in business to excuse substandard work. I happen to think it’s the height of arrogance to assert that other theoretical “people” aren’t going to understand something that you yourself understand. Like you are better or something. That means your theoretical world of people is full of dumb people. Mine is full of smart, curious people.” - Disney Imagineering Vice President, Creative and executive designer Joe Rhode


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 Post subject: Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 7:42 am 

Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 11:54 am
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Location: New Franklin, OH
I kinda agree with CZ on this. Using obviously modern power removes some of the “quaintness” of this operation which I have to believe is part of the draw for at least some of the riders. It would be interesting to know if the attendance numbers change much since they are captive to the cruise line though it probably would’t have near the same impact as, say, running a Siemens Charger as primary power on the Strasburg or Nevada Northern.

It would have been nice if they could have replicated the look of the unique vintage diesels to the extent possible, though (more $$$). Or at least have some older power on display at the terminal to tell part of the road’s story.

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 Post subject: Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 8:57 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:54 am
Posts: 26
I have to say: All painted up like that with that nose medallion, those look terrific!


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 Post subject: Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:03 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2016 1:15 pm
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They look pretty snazzy painted up I must say. They don’t scream modern as much as I had feared.

There are arguments that only railfans and historians will care about... like TVRM putting modern controls in the E8. But how your locomotive looks on the outside? You better believe it matters! There’s a reason Strasburg locomotives say “Strasburg” on the tender.


Of course this whole conversation may not matter.... very few people will ride the white pass this year. :(


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 Post subject: Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:27 am 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
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Crescent-Zephyr wrote:
R.L.Kennedy wrote:
People could care less what the locomotive looks like. It could be a John Deere tractor for all they care. People ride these trains for the adventure and scenery. The tiny percent of history buffs will be pleased to see the ocassional older diesel but especially the STEAM locomotive. Everyone knows what a steam engine is.


”It’s very easy to think “Oh people aren’t going to get that.” This sentiment is often used in business to excuse substandard work. I happen to think it’s the height of arrogance to assert that other theoretical “people” aren’t going to understand something that you yourself understand. Like you are better or something. That means your theoretical world of people is full of dumb people. Mine is full of smart, curious people.” - Disney Imagineering Vice President, Creative and executive designer Joe Rhode


Crescent-Zephyr,

I agree with your thoughts on this. I hear it all the time that the public could care less about the locomotive. Where is the market research that supports this claim? I doubt that it is true. It seems to me that the claim is being used to justify a fan-based enthusiasm for diesels rather than historical authenticity that might come with a historical tourist railroad.


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 Post subject: Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 11:50 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 19, 2019 8:54 am
Posts: 26
If they were to make them resemble the older diesels which ones to choose? The MLW/Alcos or the older carbody types? How about half like one, and half like the other?


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 Post subject: Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
It depends on what's outside the window and what bundle of experiences you are selling.

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 Post subject: Re: White Pass possibly acquiring new GE Locomotives
PostPosted: Wed Mar 18, 2020 2:15 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:28 pm
Posts: 444
Location: Northern WV
Crescent-Zephyr wrote:

There are arguments that only railfans and historians will care about... like TVRM putting modern controls in the E8. But how your locomotive looks on the outside? You better believe it matters! There’s a reason Strasburg locomotives say “Strasburg” on the tender.




I know of at least one Strasburg locomotive that doesn't say "Strasburg" on the tender. Ex-N&W 475.


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