It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 8:57 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Manipulation charts at interlocking towers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:09 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 6400
Back in the Spring of this year, Hoosier Valley Railroad Museum member Tom Rainford and I journied over to "Spike's Railhead", a model train shop in Lowell, Indiana. The shops owner, and fellow HVRM member Rick Speichert, had a model board from Ivanhoe Tower in Gary, Indiana that he wanted to donate to the museum (first photo below). In addition to the model board, Rick also gave us the Manipulation Chart from Ivanhoe (second photo). I was surprised in getting the later. I guess I realized that such charts had to exist, but I never thought about it when Hoosier Valley was making the effort to move Grasselli Tower from East Chicago, Indiana to museum property in North Judson. On a recent "Heritage Rail Alliance" report on Stair Tower at the Monticello Railway Museum, they talked about them. Here is a slightly modified explanation from HRA:

Every tower had a manipulation chart, usually framed and posted on the wall for the convenience of the operator. Going back to the idea that signals and the movement of signal appliances must succeed each other in the proper sequence, the operator would follow the manipulation chart in order to establish a clear route for a train through the track work of the interlocking plant.

Well, we have no such chart from Grasselli. Unfortunately, we didn't even THINK about it when we were struggling to move the tower (see the thread "Tower under the Gun"). We would like to find a copy of the manipulating chart for Grasselli, but realize that that will most likely, never happen now. But perhaps we can figure out a bit, exactly how these charts worked the movement of trains, by using what we got from Ivanhoe. If anyone can explain those various moves by using the photos of Ivanhoe's model board and manipulating chart, we would be most grateful. ANY insight would be extremely helpful. And thanks!

Les


Attachments:
Drizzly day an OK at HVRM 5-19-18 005.JPG
Drizzly day an OK at HVRM 5-19-18 005.JPG [ 215.09 KiB | Viewed 5927 times ]
582.JPG
582.JPG [ 224.5 KiB | Viewed 5927 times ]
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Manipulation charts at interlocking towers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 11:53 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:57 pm
Posts: 35
There is a Facebook group called Railroad Interlocking and Signal Towers, which currently has approximately 1,500 members. You might post your request there. There seem to be quite a few former operators and other knowledgeable people in it.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Manipulation charts at interlocking towers
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:40 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Northern Illinois
Les,

Those manipulation charts are typically large blueprints, or in later years, bluelines. That means that there was a tracing on file, somewhere, so that the chart could be reproduced if it became unreadable, or easily modified if there were changes to the interlocking plant. I wonder when was the last time the IHB engineering dept. culled their drawing files; they may still have it, and could run a new print.

As to how it was used, as it was explained to me many years ago, the chart assumes that all levers begin in their NORMAL position, and to line a route between the two numbers listed as endpoints, the towerman reverses the levers in the order listed. You'll note that in each route, the number for the entry signal is the last lever listed, which makes sense if you consider the normal position of an interlocking signal would be STOP, so the last step of lining the route is reversing that entry signal to whatever permissive aspect it can display. Hopefully you can get in contact with an old towerman who can explain it better.

_________________
Dennis Storzek


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Manipulation charts at interlocking towers
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:58 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:25 pm
Posts: 485
I will make an attempt at explaining the steps for recreating the info you want;

1) For each track entering your plant figure out all possible exits (Track 3 can go to Tracks 5, 10 and 11).

2) Create a line in a table for each of these possible routes. (3-5), (3-10), (3-11).

3) There should be two duplicate lines (Track 3 to Track 11 is a copy of Track 11 to Track 3). If there are not two copies of each route repeat step 1 until there are two copies of each route.

4) For each route you work backwards from the most distant signal or turnout and set them to accomplish the route you desire. For example a track 3 to track 11 route may need to go as follows; Trk 3 to Trk 5 to Trk 11. So you would work backwards setting the Trk 5 to Trk 11 turnout, then the Trk 3 to Trk 5 turnout and then (the last step) set the signal at Trk 3 to Clear.

Then you can organize them into "groups", in your example there are crossing tracks that do not connect to the "east-west" main. These would be set into their own section in the Manipulation Chart so they "stand out" for the operator.

Microsoft Excel (tm) is a good choice for a task like this, but there are free software options as well. Check out "Open Office", a free software package that does most of the tasks that Microsoft Office (tm) can do.

This "Manipulation Chart" logic was exactly what the large interlocking machines did automatically. The Operator had to select the correct route before the machine would set the signal on the entering track to Clear. And the machine checked to make sure that a selected route had no trains present before the operator was allowed to change any routes.

I would be glad to give you a hand if it is helpful, I am a bit of a spreadsheet wiz...

Cheers, Kevin


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Manipulation charts at interlocking towers
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:45 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 6400
Geoff, Dennis, Kevin -

Thanks for the replies. One thing I realized is that the model board for Ivanhoe Tower, doesn't clearly show the railroads. This might help:

http://johnhaynes.us/nkp759/towerindex.html#Ivanhoe

John Haynes dad, David Haynes, hand drew a bunch of these interlockers in the 1950's and 1960's.

Les


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Manipulation charts at interlocking towers
PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 10:42 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2815
Location: Northern Illinois
Kevin,

The only problem with that is there are sometimes levers that aren't shown on the model board, which I believe set locks internal to the locking frame. These can be seen in the Ivanhoe manipulation chart; to line the "J" across the plant from home signal 47 to the other end of interlocking limits (at signal 48), one needs to reverse levers 45, 46, and 47. 47 obviously clears the home signal, but what do 45 and 46 do? They aren't shown on either the photo of the model board or the track diagram Les just posted the link to. There are likely extra unexplained levers in the other routes as well.

In reality, since the actual model board for Grasselli won't match the track layout where the tower now sits in North Judson, and no one can really tell what all the levers did at their former location, a reasonable explanatory display could be crafted by simply installing the Ivanhoe model board and manipulation chart in the tower. At least that way the chart and model board match. the lever frame in Grasselli seems to have enough levers to look convincing, but the lever colors likely won't match the assignments at Ivanhoe.

_________________
Dennis Storzek


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Manipulation charts at interlocking towers
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:50 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 20, 2010 8:25 pm
Posts: 485
Dennis, you are correct, I did not provide a complete and fully tested answer.

I was trying to explain the "flow" of the logic steps involved; identify all possible routes, work backwards from the exit of the route to the entrance to the route. Set the appropriate turnouts and protective signals. Then set the signal controlling the entrance to the most permissive aspect allowed.

Regarding re-creating Manipulation Charts for an interlocking that no longer exists with out full information about "how it used to be".... Well I guess one has to "wing it" a bit and make some assumptions about what lever 19 was really for because the track associated was ripped out back in '33 during the depression when the old coal mine went belly up...

Very interesting topic, would like to learn more about how this tower was originally configured and how it is being used now.

Cheers, Kevin.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Manipulation charts at interlocking towers
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 11:55 am 

Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 8:35 pm
Posts: 295
NorthAmericanInterlockingTowers.com. A great website ! Dan Manners is probably the person who would have interior views of the manipulation charts.

You guys need to come to a TOWER and SIGNAL night slide show at the station in Marion, Ohio next October , they always have some great slides !


Kevin K.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Manipulation charts at interlocking towers
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 12:27 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1742
Location: Back in NE Ohio
The Marion station museum may be the best resource for examples of railroad signalling and train movements East of the Mississippi. I think it's lost on most people, even fans, because unless you've actually worked in the industry, the overall importance of signalling just does not come through. It's really frustrating when supposedly knowledgeable fans talk about "two trains racing", instead of one train passing another under dispatcher control. Keep up the good work.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Manipulation charts at interlocking towers
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:22 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 11:58 am
Posts: 250
kevin kohls wrote:
NorthAmericanInterlockingTowers.com. A great website ! Dan Manners is probably the person who would have interior views of the manipulation charts.

You guys need to come to a TOWER and SIGNAL night slide show at the station in Marion, Ohio next October , they always have some great slides !


Kevin K.


I suspect this is the web page address that you meant:

http://northamericaninterlockings.com/

Brian


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], Steamguy73 and 121 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: